johnhb1234

Hi All,

As I live in Manhattan, it's been some time since I have owned a Saab Turbo with a manual shift and I currently rent cars when I need them. I will be moving in a few months for a new job opportunity and definitely want a Porsche. With apologies, I know most people have already decided on what car they want before they ask more detailed questions - I don't.

1. I drive well but not enough these days to say I'm at the level of a Porsche enthusiast. I hear the Cayman is a better handling car and it's easier to get the most out of the car. I'm not sure at my level of driving, which could improve with some driving school courses, that it would make a big difference. Also, I could afford a fully loaded 911 but due to charity donations, etc., I'm not sure I would want to knowing I'm throwing money at myself when someone in bad circumstances simply wants to survive. Since I love sports, I could easier stomach paying for performance over luxury options but at my level of driving I'm not sure if it makes a difference and what performance options are good enough. A base Cayman or 911 are probably more than fast enough for me. I would look at those cars and be happy to put on some performance options.

First big question - a base Cayman with a few options like sport vectoring, PASM, etc. what is the minimum of important performance features vs. a 911 with the minimum performance features that I would want vs. perhaps a used 911 991 which might have a few extra features that I don't need but it would come in not much more than a Cayman. So would a 2012 - 2014 911 with some performance features be a better choice than a new Cayman?

2. I am single but 50 years old and really enjoyed the feel of a manual shifting car. However, in the Northern, VA area of Washington, DC the traffic is very bad. I'm just not sure if the PDK will give me the same "feel" as a manual and if I could live with a manual in traffic. I know the PDK shifts faster than I do, I"m just not sure if it "feels" the same as a manual and will be as gratifying to drive.

3. What does everyone think about the rear axle steering available on the new 911? You need at least a 911 S to get this. I suspect it will add more to handling than 4-wheel drive.

4. How important is 4-wheel drive on a 911 these days? I only ski a few times a year but it does rain quite a bit. Does a Cayman without 4-wheel drive handle better than a 911 with 4-wheel drive in normal driving and how does it stack up in bad weather?

5. $3000 for 18-way electric seats?!?! This is an example of a non-performance option that I object to. Can I get a $20 low back rest to stick on the seat if it's not perfect for me or does this really make a difference if the height and bottom seat angle are a bit off for me? What could I do to compensate with just 4-way seats? I could see paying $800 for the Sport Seats plus because this adds to my driving experience - do you think this is worth it?

Anything else that would add to the performance and driving experience? I almost feel like a 2016 Cayman GTS does a lot for features or a used 911 GTS, any thoughts?

6. Do you like the idea of the new turbo engine vs. the older engine? So I would have to pay $3000 approximately for a special exhaust system to get the Porsche sound enhanced because Porsche has decided to get a turbo engine? It sounds like the customers are bank rolling Porsche's decision to do this.

I do have a good attitude and don't want people to think I don't have the right spirit/attitude in asking these questions. I'm just too new to the car to know the difference and would like to walk into the dealer having narrowed down some of my choices.

Thanks!

tgil

Lived in DC area for 30 years. Traffic is horrible most places during long rush hours, especially Rt 66 in NVA and the Beltway. The MT will wear you out as a daily driver and take the fun out of ownership.
They are totally diff cars IMHO. Drive both for sure. Tysons Porche is great dealer they move lots of Porches, and Silver Spring Porche is good as well.
I prefer NA cars to Turbo in a high performance car. Ive driven both but only owned 911s and am partial to them.
For AWD Porche car (non SUV) your option is a 911 C4S or THE "911Turbo", and I dont feel you need it in that area especially if you switch to winter tires for a couple months each year, but it depends how you drive, etc.
Good luck and have fun shopping for a Porche that suits your needs the best.

sugarwood

Disclaimer: I know nothing. Ignore me.

Great questions. I am going to take the contrarian viewpoint, and one you will rarely hear on an enthusiast forum.

1) Drive both cars. Cayman has 275hp to 385hp. You really think that's not enough car for you? LOL, then keep hitting that crack pipe.
In the real word, you can't come close to reaching the limits of that car on public roads, unless you plan on getting arrested or killing someone.
Drive the Cayman and tell us if you're mashing the pedal to the floor, while yanking at the wheel, and muttering "Go already.... Jesus! This thing is a pig. HURRY!!! "
If you're not going to the track, a Camry V6 is all the car you can possibly use. The rest is gravy.

Cayman better handling, right? I will personally mail you $1000 if you EVER notice the difference in handling on public streets of a mid-engine vs rear-engine car, at age 50.
The internet is littered with "NEVER lift in a turn". What they fail to mention is that you need to be going 100mph with the tires SCREAMING for you to lift and actually maybe lose traction.
On a skid pad, they need to hose down the pavement AND pull your e-brake for you to break the rear wheels loose while lifting the throttle in a massive understeer.

2) If you like manual, then buy manual. Period. There is nothing practical about a sports car. So, get whatever the hell makes YOU happy.
Try a PDK, if it bores you, then screw it. It's YOUR $100,000 you're pissing on this. This is a toy, so get the toy you want to play with.

3) Rear steering? Cars did not have this for 50 years. I think you can live without it.
Also see #1. What sort of driving is required to even make you notice rear wheel steering? 90% of driving or 10% ?

4) You gonna drive in the snow? Is the Porsche going to be your only car?
Snow tires blow away anything AWD can offer on all-season tires.
Tires > AWD.

5) I would actually pay more for manual seats with no electrical bull**** embedded in them.
That includes heated seats. Man up, and wear a sweater if you're cold for that 3 minutes before your heater works. FIRST WORLD PROBLEMS.

I don't know of your budget, but I am also a fan of buying a used car. You can get a very nice used Cayman for $30k.
One that looks new. Don't like it? Sell it for $29k a year later. Net loss $1k. Much less stress than eating $40k in depreciation or whatever.

The last and best advice I can give you is to immediately stop reading ANYTHING automotive media related. Burn it all. It's 99% theoretical bull**** that does not apply to the real world.
Want to decide on a car? Drive the car in the real world, on real streets, without bias and see what is real and what is hypothetical track semantics.

sugarwood

Lastly, I would not buy a car until I lived there a month or two and knew exactly what kind of driving I am going to be doing.
Maybe you end up with a train pass and a bicycle.

Als991?

Many good points in there, delivered in a very stylish manner. But the answer lies in number 1. I faced a similar question for the last few months. Drive both. Their character is quite different, especially if you are looking at the 991 versus 981.

Do you plan on track days? Daily driving? Do you care what people think about what you drive? Do you need a back seat? Do you want his-and-[his/hers] trunks? Need PDK? Crave manual? Each of these will push you towards one or the other. Both are excellent. Buy what "fits."

Freddie Two Bs

Excellent post Sugar, very refreshing. Should be made a sticky. Especially the point about the camry V6. Even my Abarth is way more car than you can practically play with on civilian streets really. Although it's fun to floor it in the 996tt for a couple seconds on an empty stretch of interstate.

I never thought I'd say that but I'm at the point where I don't care for any more HPs than I already have in the cars that I own.

sugarwood

I also reached a place where I realized RPM control is more important than raw horsepower. Keeping the revs between 3k and 6k really transforms the car's responsiveness.

johnhb1234

Thanks for all of the responses. Sugarwood, I looked up your reference to AWD vs. winter/snow tires. Confirmed that the winter tires are more important - thanks!

Freddie Two Bs

That's why they put the RPM gauge in the center!

tcsracing1

I suggest a Carrera 4 with PDK.

Do not get caught up in options. Get minimum options to save money.

Carrera 4 on snow tires is a winter daily driver that is ski worthy.
PDK is a must for heavy traffic areas. And is a blast to drive. Win, Win.

In the pre owned world, you could look to 997.2 Carrera 4S or 997.2 Turbo. Great buys.
Or if you want latest greatest, the 991.1 C4S and 991.1 Turbo make great pre owned options over the new 991.2 models.

Cayman is a great daily driver, but im not going skiing with it.

Dan Nagy

I live in the DC area, so I was curious about your decision. What did you do?

johnhb1234

I'm going to lease a 911 Porsche Turbo S and will be in Washington from Sunday - Tuesday finalizing where I am going to live.

r911

You posted in the old air-cooled 911 forum, so these cars end in 1989. 964, then 993 were the 'newer' air cooled cars.

That biases the replies you'll get and it is not clear if you mean a new 911 (like a 991 or the 'old' 997) or a true 911...

But, yes, you will need to drive the cars - maybe even rent if possible or the shortest lease possible and then swap when it's up. A quick A/B of two cars is not the same as living with them.

and... do you WANT "to get the most out of the car" or do you just want a fun, exciting driving experience? the former cannot be done on public roads in a newer Porsche

johnhb1234

I posted in several forums and when I started this process a few months ago, knew nothing about Porsche's. I drove a Jaguar SVR - understeer, the car slightly lost traction without pushing it hard, a Mercedes AMG GTS - vibrated and felt somewhat unstable on hard acceleration and the a 911 Turbo S (991 series).

I intend to go to Alabama to 2 days of driving school and also New Hampshire for 2 days of their Rally car driving school to be able to better drive the car. Maybe once every few months I'll take it to a track, such as Limerock or one closer to where I'm moving to. The rest of the time it will be a daily driver but with low miles as I don't have to commute to work.

johnhb1234

I forgot to mention that the first Porsche I drove was a 911 Carrera S (991.2 series) and was surprised at how easy to drive and well-behaved it was. That is why I felt comfortable going upscale.