rg0115

I have an opportunity to purchase my first Porsche a 911. It’s been a dream of mine since I can remember. My dream is 993 but prices have gone of the charts and I am financially not able to buy it at this time. I don’t know much about these cars in regards to maintenance and cost of owner ship. The vehicle I am interested in is a 1977 911s Targa. It is not in show car condition, has been repainted once and the engine was swapped with a 1982 911SC which is the 3.0 vs 2.7. It has 108,000 miles but with the engine swap hard to tell how many are actually on the engine. Some of the rubber trim pieces around the car need replacement. Owner has a new targa top skin that still need to be installed and mentioned it needs a new windshield wiper switch. Overall it looks good considering the age and has not been in an accident. It also has OEM Fuchs wheels. The color is yellow on black. The seats have been re-upholstered , but in a strange off back leather. Not very appealing in my opinion.
I know because it’s not a chassis engine match it will affect value and will probably never receive high collector value even if I restore it completely. I am going to take another look at the car this morning and will have an opportunity to drive it. The current owner has had it for 18 years.
I hoping to get some advice in regard to what to look out for and more importantly, what should I expect to pay for this car? I will take some detailed pictures but was hoping to get some advise in the meantime. I appreciate any bit of advice I can get. Thank you.

Carrera51

If you decide you want it, a pre-purchase inspection by a knowledgeable Porsche Specialist. When you look at the car, check the battery box for rust, the front suspension mounting point, and in the door jambs. Also a the base of the windshield. Having been swapped to a 3.0 isn't necessarily a bad thing if you are looking for a nice solid driver, as opposed to a numbers matching concour car. Good that the owner has had the car for the last 18 years, so hopefully he has maintenance records.

What's it worth. In today's 911 market, that's tough given that prices are all crazy.

GTgears

Sounds like a $20-25K car. The 3.0l swap is a good thing from a performance and reliability standpoint. Like Mark said, if you get to a number you both agree on get a pre-purchase inspection from a professional.

Expect to spend several thousand dollars a year on upkeep and reconditioning. A car like that, if looked after, can easily give you another 100k mi of service without a huge expense. By the same token if the engine or gearbox does need care, it can be a pretty dear 1 time hit.

rg0115

Thank you for the great replies. I had a chance to drive the car yesterday and it drove nice and tights and no vibration. I looked the car over closely and it seems very solid for its age. No major rust anywhere just minor trim pieces here and there that need work or replacement. Car has always been garage kept and the owner said he never drove it in the rain. No rust around the strut towers, floor pans or the battery compartment. Second gear was sometimes difficult to get in without a slight grinding. But after I go the hang of it and pull it into gear vs. trying to jerk it in place hard it was fine.

The Targa top is completely dissembled but all the parts and new skin come with it. That would be a project for a pro, not sure what that would cost. I also found out more about the service records. And here is where it gets a little concerning. The engine was replaced at 79K it now has 108K. The current owner actually purchased the car and it wasn't drivable. I guess the previous owner did not know what they were doing and didn't install it correctly. This guy had a professional install the new/used 1982 3.0 engine and had it check out back in 1996. He dropped about 3k back then. He also replaced the front struts and he recently replaced the alternator. Other than oil changes, re-build of front break caliper he said he hasn't done much in the 18 years.

He did mentioned it leaks some oil from the valve covers. So my guess, the engine could use some work. I really like the car and would be something I can fix up over the years. I am definitely going to get a PPI inspection before I start any negotiation. The engine and tranny scare me a little, but let's see what he inspections says. If the price is right, I am willing to put a couple of grand into it to get I back up to par. I'll keep you guys posted.

GTgears

Why would the engine replacement be concerning? A 77 had thermal reactors and were known for self destructing early in life. 3.0 engines are bulletproof. He upgraded the car for you. I don't understand the concern. Are you stuck on the numbers matching thing? You shouldn't be. Unknown mileage on the 3.0 shouldn't be an issue either. They run forever. Just get a compression test and leakdown down for your mental health and buy the car.

Valve cover leaks are normal. Get a copy of Wayne Dempsey's 101 projects for your 911. You will learn all the little niggling issues about these cars and about how a guy with a set of wrenches can save himself thousands by doing it himself. The valve covers, for example, are about $80 worth of seals and a Saturday of your time.

Carrera51

The grind going into 2nd could he a worn syncro. During the PPI, ask them to drain the gearbox. Any big chunks of metal will be cause for concern. Some fine metal shavings on the plug I think is normal. At least it was on my 84 Carrera. Put some fresh Swepco 201 in it and drive again. Leaking valve covers could just be from lack of use. If it doesn't have the 930 valve covers on it, replace them anyway plus you will want to check the head studs in the PPI. If you are really interested in the car, then paying that extra on the PPI is worth it.

Since it's been a while, if you decide you want the car, negotiate the price budgeting to do a valve adjustment service on it so you can start fresh.

rg0115

The more I find out about the 77 engine, less I am off concern. For me it would be a driver anyway, so the upgraded engine sounds like is what I want anyway. My real concern is that in the 18 years of ownership with 30k miles driven, not much was done to the car. But then again, that could be good signs as to how solid the swap was. I'll get a PPI and go from there. You guys are awesome, thanks for all the help.

GTgears

The grind going into 2nd can also be a novice 915 driver. Make sure that you are at 4000-4500rpm in 1st before making that shift. And then it is what Pete Z calls a 2 state shift. It is notched in to gear.

theiceman

this........

second gear meshing is a common issue for people not used to the 915.

theiceman

Also I would not be the least bit surprised if someone told me there were far more 74-77 cars that did not have the original engine than did.

I think the benefits of a 3.0 litre car far outweigh the benefits of having a numbers matching 2.7.

let me be clear .. ( my best Obama impression ) that a sorted 2.7 with proper machine work and engine rebuild is a great car, its just sometimes you don't know. The 3.0 litre is a workhorse engine and one of the best ever built.

Drisump

There is a fellow by the name of Dan Petchel who seems to be "the guy" as far as Targa tops go. I believe what you describe would cost >$1k. To get them to look proper and seal well is rather an art form. For whatever it's worth I'm pretty confident that the cost of running that car over the years will be far less than a 993. I have both a 993 and a 3.2 and the shear complicated nature of the 993 vs the original 911 I feel will cost much more to maintain. However it is a much more modern car with working ventilation and A/C, greater ease of driving, faster and more comfortable. As others have said, the 3.0 should be a great engine with many out there doing 100's of thousands of miles. The 915 is one of the cars fun elements to get to know. I never rush mine even when I'm "in a hurry". A slight pause in neutral, RPM matching and some even find double clutching all aids in smooth use of this tranny. Good luck

rg0115

Very disappointing news. The seller decided not to sell the vehicle. I was so close to my dream. Unfortunately, this vehicle is not going to be it. I still want to thank everyone for their great advice. I know I will visit this site frequent and learn more about these cars so when the right car comes a long, I will more prepare. Thanks again.