obaidm

Hi all - I'm a first time Rennlister.

I have a 1977 Porsche 911 S. The engine (2.7) hasn't been turned over in 12yrs. When I stopped driving it the engine was flooded with oil and it began to smoke...there was too much oil placed in the engine...

I now am faced with some options. Rebuild the current engine, try to find another rebuilt engine. If I'm going to buy a new engine, should I remain a purist and stay with the 2.7 if available. OR should I upgrade to the 78+ 3.4L SC engine...or Turbo?

I'm not very good with working on the car on my own, but can. Do I take it to a local Porsche specialist?

I have a budget of $5K-7K for engine portion of the project (rebuild or new). I then want to restore the interior and new paint.

I would appreciate any guidance.

I live in Walnut Creek, CA in case anyone has local recommendations.

Thanks much,

Obaid

Amber Gramps

C.A.R.B. laws dictate your car must keep its N/A 2.7L to remain registered in California. Sucks, but thanks to all the tree hugging, hippie-lib, commie pinko, private jet, hypocritical ****ers in Sacramento any car build m/y '75 or newer has to remain stock.

obaidm

Thank you Amber. I was not aware. In which case it simplifies my decision...

If anyone knows how I would go about finding someone that is selling a 2.7 motor, or anyone that can rebuild it...I would appreciate it. I'm in Walnut Creek, CA as mentioned. Thank you again.

Amber Gramps

Let's not jump to rebuilding it if we don't have to. If you over-filled it with oil, just drain out the now 12 year old oil and fill it to the proper level. Then take her out at night under the cover of darkness. The excess oil will eventually burn off. It may take several night runs, but way less money than an unnecessary rebuild.

New fuel, new plugs, and some other age related items like plug wires and I'm thinking you are good to go. Smoke does not mean fire.

obaidm

Makes sense. If I remember correctly, it just seemed like the exhausts were leaking out the white smoke. Worse-case perhaps new exhaust?

I appreciate the insight.

GTgears

Not 100% accurate. If he installs a 3.0SC engine as long as he includes all smog equipment required for that year of the engine he can go in front of a BAR referee and get a nice fancy little sticker that approves his updated engine.

The federal law is that you cannot put an engine that is older than the chassis into the car. But they do allow you to put newer engines in to older vehicles. I've been in front of BAR referees a couple times. They are very thorough. It is about an hour long appointment and they go over the car with a complete list of everything required for the year of the replacement engine. If they find it all and consider the installation to be correct, then they will give you the sniffer test.

The other thing, in a less legal realm, is that an SC engine and a 2.7 are both CIS engines. If one were to install a complete SC longblock and use the 1977 exhaust and smog pump on it, no smog station employee is ever going to know that they aren't testing a stock vehicle. Visually a 2.7 and a 3.0 are very similar with the biggest tell being mag versus aluminum case. No smog guy is going to know that. The only risk is if he checks the serial number, which he probably won't.

I didn't even mention a 930 turbo engine because good luck for even finding a buildable core for the $7k budget in play here. The only option would be an SC engine or another 2.7.

Here's hoping that it is just overfilled with oil and will run and drive after that and the engine swap discussion is meaningless.

obaidm

Great post GTgears - thank you!

I think that's the first natural step; to drain the oil and see what can be done with what I have.

Do you (or anyone) have a suggestion on where I could look for Porsche engines? I am now curious about the 930 Turbo engine.

Also from a value perspective - what holds value better in the long run...the purist approach or let's say I go crazy and decide on a 930 turbo engine...

GTgears

A turbo engine will cost you more than your car is worth. $10k for a core that needs another $10k of work. A 77 930 is currently worth 5-10 times the value of your car. An engine for one will be priced accordingly. My core price may even be low.

Try los Angeles Porsche dismantlers.

Amber Gramps

The 930 Turbo engine is going to cost you more than your car.

GT, would love to discover that you are correct, but I've been delayed for simply having my heater blower deleted. The new S.T.A.R. smog stations are real ******.

If the serial number on your cat isn't approved for your particular year/make/model it's not gonna pass visual.

Granted, they never figured out that my Chevy was punched out two over and had big heads because it passed the sniff test. Maybe in the 911 one CIS will look like another. I just remember Ed Hughes "Ruby" was flagged as a gross polluter with just a simple 3,4L. (May have had headers tough.)

I do not know a single person that has gotten away with a 3,6 in a G-body car in California.

If we are giving out names, Brian Farmer at Einmalig in Huntington Beach, has row after row in his warehouse of finished engines of all variants.

JCP911S

No suggestion on CARB, as PA has provisions for non-complying cars.

However, I would plan to simply ressurrect/repair your original engine....

These cars are becoming collectable, and a "numbers matching" engine will increase the long-term value of your car.

Also, engine swaps are more expensive than you think.

Finding a good motor is hard... most of the used engines you will find are probably not in any better condition than your 2.7... I've seen some nice engines offered and they are all over $10K. I have a really good low mile 3.2 and wouldn't sell it for a dollar less than $12K.

As suggested, you may be able to get your current engine running for less than $1K. For $7K, you can do a complete top-end rebuild of your 2.7, including time-certs on the case and new head studs (a noted weakness of these engines). Once done, you'll have an engine that will outlast you.

If you want to get fancy, there are a lot of things you can do to increase performance on your car... high compression pistons, cams, etc, that would be part of a top-end rebuild.... but that's another story.

Good luck

GTgears

If you just show up at a smog station with a 3.2 or 3.6 swap you will fail the visual. You have no thermal reactors or smog pump.

You must go in front of the BAR (bureau of automotive repair) and have your car inspected one time and reclassified to the more modern standard of your new engine. Then they install a sticker in your door jam.

From then on out when you go to a smog station the attendant will check it as the newer vehicle.

Yes, any aftermarket intake or exhaust parts must have a carb cert number. SSIs, to my knowledge are not carb approved. Obviously no cat is both a visual and a tailpipe fail.

I lived in CA for 32 years. I had certified Hondas and Subarus with swaps. It's a process but once done your car is legal in the eyes of the state. I still am held to CA standards put here in CO. That's part of why I just bought a 74. That old and my 3.2 with carbs and headers won't matter on collector plates.

race911

Yeah, 3.0 engine-into-2.7 chassis was all the rage when people were still driving them regularly. Referee signoff, especially on a '78-9 swap was as easy as it got. Biggest pain was a couple of pins on the engine wiring harness, and swapping the CD box.

(Ruby may not have had a cat exhaust on it when attempting to get smogged. And I'm not sure Ed attempted it post-dual ignition. As that 3.4L is in a '73 chassis, no issues going forward.)

Back to our OP. Yes, I'd put first effort into getting the car running. Lots of ancillary issues going on with a car that's been sitting a decade plus. Battery, sure. Fuel pump, maybe. What's in the fuel tank is most concerning--the varnish inside there come back to life with fresh gas and gum up the intake valves, possibly leading to them seizing in the guides. Get the big surprise like one of my old customers who did the DIY install on a nice 2.7RS engine I made out of his 2.4S.

Since you're local (run my vending business out of CC County), happy to pop in and give you an assessment; but I haven't been in the Porsche business for 20 years now.

kjchristopher

GT is correct. The key is you have to go to BAR and get the swap approved. You have to swap over all smog equipment for the new engine. I've personally discussed it with BAR when considering a smog legal 3.6 swap. You'll pass visual as there is a new "visual" standard once signed off and stickered.

Charles Freeborn

First I would confirm the original engine is in trouble. Too much oil, on it's own, is not fatal.
Then, either way- rebuild or swap - you're not going to get done correctly for 5-7. Put a one in front of it and it starts to pencil out nicely.
-C