gottahave1

Hello everyone,
Please forgive my poor English.
I am on the market for a used 911 and found a really weird car in Athens Greece.
Seller claims it is a 911/C4/964 but VIN shows a 911/930T
http://www.car.gr/classifieds/cars/photos/600602/
The engine is a 3600/250bhp and looks in good condition.
It appears that the bodyshell belongs to a turbo? that was once transformed into a 964?

Is there any actual value to this car?
Could it be converted back to its original state?
Am I looking for trouble with this one?
Price is 28.000 € negotiable.
What am I looking at in terms of expense?
BTW although the car looks neglected it drives smooth revs smooth and stops good.
Any help much appreciated.

gottahave1

Trying to upload pictures but have a message wrong file format.
Please refer to link in 1st post for detailed pictures.

Amber Gramps

Not even a parts car in California. That poor thing has been abused beyond saving.

First thing I see is that ya, it does look to be a 964/C4, but where is the heater ducting? How much engine cooling is just blowing back into the engine compartment and not actually cooling the engine?

http://www.car.gr/classifieds/cars/photos/600602/

gottahave1

Thanks for the input.
Much obliged.

race911

What is the VIN? Pics certainly show a non-airbag 964 C4. Not sure how far before they all had airbags, only '89s didn't have them in the US. You can also tell that it's a C4 by the two ***** on the console in front of the shifter--left one is for manual activation of the rear spoiler, right one (obscured) is for low speed differential locking. Beyond the front truck photo being a 964 giveaway, you can also tell by the power steering reservoir on the passenger side of the engine bay, seemingly hooked up. No way, no how is 964 suspension/steering fitted into an earlier torsion bar chassis.

So then, looks like this car had a Turbo/widebody flare job along the way. May be a perfectly restorable car, may be a disaster under the paint.

race911

And totally oddball torsion bar Turbo rockers installed, versus 964 units. Just google 1991 964 Turbo (aka 965, mistakenly), 1992 America Roadster, or 1994 964 C4.

gottahave1

I can not sort it out. Very confused. The VIN is
WP0ZS2969RS480221 listed on a silver tag.
Some sites indicate 930 some others 964.
I can not make any sense from I read in internet pages.
Could the vin be "bogus" and this car is a Frankenstein monster?
I am ready to give up on it.
Should I let it rust in peace?
I think I should.

gottahave1

Just out of curiosity's sake can anyone decode this VIN?
I am not making any results.
Not interested in the car anymore just curious to check the vin and see to what extent I was about to be fooled.

Amber Gramps

Read Ken's post again. It is an early, all-wheel drive, 964 with a wide-turbo-body. The steering wheel shows no airbag and other interior bits make it clear that it's an '89, the front trunk and the tunnel show the C4 AWD, the body shows the flares that are not stock for a 964, and the engine and instrument cluster show 964. It was never a 930. Maybe it was a 965 that suffered an engine swap.

I'm going with 965 (turbo version of the 964) that was downgraded to a 964 engine at some point. The flares, skirts, and bumpers look good. Also the VIN hit that says 930 is interesting. With as badly abused this poor thing is, it makes far more sense to me that a turbo car had it's engine swapped down after just to keep it on the road, than it would that a N/A car had many many thousands of dollars spent going wide body only to beat the living crap out of it.

Maybe post this same question in the 964 or 965 forum where it belongs.

GTgears

That's the chassis number. It's not the same as the vin. I think Ken is right, it's just a 964 C4.

Todd Holyoak

From the VIN it is a 964 (digits 7,8 and 12). The 'R' at position 10 indicates a 1994, it would be a 'K' if it was an 1989. Based upon the appearance of the car, I would guess that either the 'R' digit is being misread or if it is on a non-factory plate (as your description suggests), was mis-stamped. Similarly, I think the 'WP0ZS2' is again either being misread or was mis-stamped as it should be 'WP0ZZZ'

race911

Yeah, I went and looked it up and had a moment with that R indicating a '94. So then it's a factory widebody, and is one of the few.

Question I have is if the ROW cars that late didn't have airbags.

gottahave1

So some new data on this.
The car was confiscated at some point from Greek authorities because the original owner was involved in some shady business.
It was bought from a government auction and as the original chassis number was scraped (for whatever reason) they recreated what they made out of it and the title has these exact numbers on.
The owner has photos of it from the day he bought it and he swears he did nothing to the body except changing an engine that was broken a steering wheel (airbag deployed) and seats.
It seems that it will remain a mystery as it is too expensive and too shady for me to deal with it.
Thanks everybody.
You had been great help.

gottahave1

The owner also got a little "non friendly" with so many questions and doesn't respond any more to my messages.
Apart from that I had a friend call him and provided a totally different VIN or chassis number that he said he found on the rear area.
Clearly not the kind of car I would like to own when it comes to locating parts or servicing.
I wouldn't know neither model or type to order anything.
Thanks once again.

Amber Gramps

https://rennlist.com/forums/964-foru...hat-is-it.html