1969-1973 hotrod project options
04-30-2015, 12:20 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
Sure. Been done multi-thousands of times over the years. All the weakness of a 2.7, coupled with the weakness of overboring a 2.4 case! (There are "7R" cases, aka the 2.7 case, that started showing up with the '73.5 T, the ones with CIS injection--those are fine for a 2.7 upgrade.)
Unless you're glued to numbers correctness, as above, just plug in a larger displacement engine as a whole.
Unless you're glued to numbers correctness, as above, just plug in a larger displacement engine as a whole.
04-30-2015, 12:31 PM
#17
Nordschleife Master
Like Ken said you can make it 2.7 but must modify the case for the 90mm cylinder. You can overbore the 2.4 to get to 2.5 without the modifications. But still expect to spend $20-25k on the engine I suggested. A 3.0 or 3.2 swap it the cookie cutter cost effective way.
04-30-2015, 12:48 PM
#18
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Great information here!
I was actually looking at a 72T that has a 2.7L and the owner assumes it was the stock 2.4L punched out to 2.7L. Good to know if that is the deal, then chances are the engine could be an issue...
I will dig deeper into the numbers of the engine of the car before i even consider it.
As to the 69 project roller that i am looking at, the seller has about 12-18 engines on the stash.
What engine would have an aluminum case?
I will end up with two of the cars or worst case just the 69.
I was actually looking at a 72T that has a 2.7L and the owner assumes it was the stock 2.4L punched out to 2.7L. Good to know if that is the deal, then chances are the engine could be an issue...
I will dig deeper into the numbers of the engine of the car before i even consider it.
As to the 69 project roller that i am looking at, the seller has about 12-18 engines on the stash.
What engine would have an aluminum case?
I will end up with two of the cars or worst case just the 69.
04-30-2015, 03:56 PM
#20
Some other thoughts just to add to the confusion. I have no philosophical qualms about hotrods... but there are financial considerations.
First, if the end game is an R-Gruppe hot-rod, you might consider just buying one already done.... these come on the market... generally speaking you can buy them at a discount to the "build cost", and have a turn-key car.
Second, consider the value of a stock 911T... these are not "donor" cars anymore... they are well past $50K today and rising fast... you could probably do a #2 quality restoration on the car for what a hotrod would cost you... if 3 years from now, 911Ts are selling for $100K, how will you feel?
Third, if you do a "resto-mod" (to steal a term), keep it as stock-looking as possible... I know I'm going to get beat up on this... but the RS/RSR/ST look has become trite... I love them, but there's a million of them.
To me the trend is toward "period" hot rods. I love the visual purity of the original narrow-body car. 6x15 S Fuchs look great on these cars, and will give you period handling. As for an engine, get a number-correct T core (if you can still find one), and rebuild it... there are a lot of things you can do... C:R, cams, etc that will give you nice power... and PMO carbs/FI, or if you can find it... an old MFI system (now that would be bitchin')
At the end of the day, an engine retrofit will end up costing the same or more as a quality rebuild, not have the period "vibe", and will not really give much more real-world performance.
I foolishly put a 3.2 in my '70S and have regretted it every day since..(not to worry, I still have the original engine), but I can tell you that compared with the short-stroke MFI 2.2S engine hitting 7,200 rpm, the 3.2 feels like a truck motor.
An "S" spec 2.2 T motor in a lightweight narrow-body car would be a total hoot.
As I say, I love spending OPM.
First, if the end game is an R-Gruppe hot-rod, you might consider just buying one already done.... these come on the market... generally speaking you can buy them at a discount to the "build cost", and have a turn-key car.
Second, consider the value of a stock 911T... these are not "donor" cars anymore... they are well past $50K today and rising fast... you could probably do a #2 quality restoration on the car for what a hotrod would cost you... if 3 years from now, 911Ts are selling for $100K, how will you feel?
Third, if you do a "resto-mod" (to steal a term), keep it as stock-looking as possible... I know I'm going to get beat up on this... but the RS/RSR/ST look has become trite... I love them, but there's a million of them.
To me the trend is toward "period" hot rods. I love the visual purity of the original narrow-body car. 6x15 S Fuchs look great on these cars, and will give you period handling. As for an engine, get a number-correct T core (if you can still find one), and rebuild it... there are a lot of things you can do... C:R, cams, etc that will give you nice power... and PMO carbs/FI, or if you can find it... an old MFI system (now that would be bitchin')
At the end of the day, an engine retrofit will end up costing the same or more as a quality rebuild, not have the period "vibe", and will not really give much more real-world performance.
I foolishly put a 3.2 in my '70S and have regretted it every day since..(not to worry, I still have the original engine), but I can tell you that compared with the short-stroke MFI 2.2S engine hitting 7,200 rpm, the 3.2 feels like a truck motor.
An "S" spec 2.2 T motor in a lightweight narrow-body car would be a total hoot.
As I say, I love spending OPM.
04-30-2015, 06:39 PM
#21
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I have a stock look 1970 T. Outside you only see two exhaust pipes. It has 930 brakes, and engine build to 2.9. With 240hp and 300nm on carbs. Also setup with stiffer suspension is done. So its a kind of a hot-sleeper. ;-)
Try to post photos, get parse error?
Try to post photos, get parse error?
04-30-2015, 10:54 PM
#22
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Some other thoughts just to add to the confusion. I have no philosophical qualms about hotrods... but there are financial considerations.
First, if the end game is an R-Gruppe hot-rod, you might consider just buying one already done.... these come on the market... generally speaking you can buy them at a discount to the "build cost", and have a turn-key car.
Second, consider the value of a stock 911T... these are not "donor" cars anymore... they are well past $50K today and rising fast... you could probably do a #2 quality restoration on the car for what a hotrod would cost you... if 3 years from now, 911Ts are selling for $100K, how will you feel?
Third, if you do a "resto-mod" (to steal a term), keep it as stock-looking as possible... I know I'm going to get beat up on this... but the RS/RSR/ST look has become trite... I love them, but there's a million of them.
To me the trend is toward "period" hot rods. I love the visual purity of the original narrow-body car. 6x15 S Fuchs look great on these cars, and will give you period handling. As for an engine, get a number-correct T core (if you can still find one), and rebuild it... there are a lot of things you can do... C:R, cams, etc that will give you nice power... and PMO carbs/FI, or if you can find it... an old MFI system (now that would be bitchin')
At the end of the day, an engine retrofit will end up costing the same or more as a quality rebuild, not have the period "vibe", and will not really give much more real-world performance.
I foolishly put a 3.2 in my '70S and have regretted it every day since..(not to worry, I still have the original engine), but I can tell you that compared with the short-stroke MFI 2.2S engine hitting 7,200 rpm, the 3.2 feels like a truck motor.
An "S" spec 2.2 T motor in a lightweight narrow-body car would be a total hoot.
As I say, I love spending OPM.
First, if the end game is an R-Gruppe hot-rod, you might consider just buying one already done.... these come on the market... generally speaking you can buy them at a discount to the "build cost", and have a turn-key car.
Second, consider the value of a stock 911T... these are not "donor" cars anymore... they are well past $50K today and rising fast... you could probably do a #2 quality restoration on the car for what a hotrod would cost you... if 3 years from now, 911Ts are selling for $100K, how will you feel?
Third, if you do a "resto-mod" (to steal a term), keep it as stock-looking as possible... I know I'm going to get beat up on this... but the RS/RSR/ST look has become trite... I love them, but there's a million of them.
To me the trend is toward "period" hot rods. I love the visual purity of the original narrow-body car. 6x15 S Fuchs look great on these cars, and will give you period handling. As for an engine, get a number-correct T core (if you can still find one), and rebuild it... there are a lot of things you can do... C:R, cams, etc that will give you nice power... and PMO carbs/FI, or if you can find it... an old MFI system (now that would be bitchin')
At the end of the day, an engine retrofit will end up costing the same or more as a quality rebuild, not have the period "vibe", and will not really give much more real-world performance.
I foolishly put a 3.2 in my '70S and have regretted it every day since..(not to worry, I still have the original engine), but I can tell you that compared with the short-stroke MFI 2.2S engine hitting 7,200 rpm, the 3.2 feels like a truck motor.
An "S" spec 2.2 T motor in a lightweight narrow-body car would be a total hoot.
As I say, I love spending OPM.
I have looked at many hot rods on the market. Some are a compromise and others need work.
But that would be the best place to start from a cost point of view.
I came across a rust free roller without an engine for a great deal and it is like starting with a blank canvas. Hard to resist
Im hearing you on not cutting the fenders.... Alot of wide fender cars out there now and these are so pristine I just cannot cut them. They are still in tired original paint! So perhaps keep it stock body would be the wise move...
Last edited by tcsracing1; 04-30-2015 at 11:40 PM.
04-30-2015, 11:29 PM
#23
Nordschleife Master
Sounds like the resto-rod mentioned. Patina'd on a stock body.
The 2.5 I mentioned is a nice balance point between a 3.2 and the 2.2S JPC mentioned. I gave you the SOPM build. The exact engine I am building right now is a 2.5 on a 73.5 7R 2.4l case. Single plug. Weber 40idas. JE pistons in bored and nikasil played stock cylinders. I'm not even running the upgraded oil pump everyone says you need. Just a GT1 (Glenn Yee) blueprinted stock 2.4 pump and oil bypass mod. Cams will be a torquey carb cam.
Won't rev to 7200 like an S. But will have torque lower because of the displacement and the cam. On the street and back roads that pull in 2-4th gear are what I want. It isn't a race car. I want to drive 3000-6000 rpm every day. I will gear it to suit the engine once it is built.
The 2.5 I mentioned is a nice balance point between a 3.2 and the 2.2S JPC mentioned. I gave you the SOPM build. The exact engine I am building right now is a 2.5 on a 73.5 7R 2.4l case. Single plug. Weber 40idas. JE pistons in bored and nikasil played stock cylinders. I'm not even running the upgraded oil pump everyone says you need. Just a GT1 (Glenn Yee) blueprinted stock 2.4 pump and oil bypass mod. Cams will be a torquey carb cam.
Won't rev to 7200 like an S. But will have torque lower because of the displacement and the cam. On the street and back roads that pull in 2-4th gear are what I want. It isn't a race car. I want to drive 3000-6000 rpm every day. I will gear it to suit the engine once it is built.
05-01-2015, 12:05 AM
#25
Rennlist Member
this thread is almost as dangerous as the pelican forums... lots of good info here.... if anyone knows of a well done hot rod, don't care if period correct, back dated fine, just fun to drive and looks the part... pm me the info.... I have an air cooled itch to scratch.
05-01-2015, 12:38 AM
#26
Drifting
I had a 71 E with factory ST flares- they are beautiful and just the right size- not cheap. Very easy to build a 2.7 from a 2.4 but I'd build a 2.5 or 2.8 SS myself.
Phil
Phil
05-01-2015, 01:21 AM
#28
Rennlist Member
05-01-2015, 08:24 AM
#29
Most of the guys building these cars whether RS or ST seem to do 2.7, 2.8, 3.0, 3.2 or 3.4
One very nice motor is a 2.7 or 2.8 built from a 2.0 aluminum case
It all depends on budget and purpose
the ST has what bulging fenders f/r the fronts are the same size as 930 the rears 1" narrower than 930 but 1" wider than RS
the bigger fenders on the TS make for a better handling car, RS can use up to 8 & 9.5" wheels w/o too much effort(7 & 8(in 15) or 9(in 16) if using stock Fuchs)
the ST can use 9 & 10 maybe 11 but you will want custom wheels to do this
05-01-2015, 09:24 AM
#30
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Mechanical, but I have a huge bias.
Again it depends on budget. I second Phil's suggestion for either 2.5 or 2.8 SS. I would suggest the 2.5 for a narrow body and 2.8 for a flaired body hotrod. As you say a shell like you have is truly a blank canvas if you want to build one for yourself.
Again it depends on budget. I second Phil's suggestion for either 2.5 or 2.8 SS. I would suggest the 2.5 for a narrow body and 2.8 for a flaired body hotrod. As you say a shell like you have is truly a blank canvas if you want to build one for yourself.
