Stewart Lund

Hi,

I'm looking at getting my first 911 and would like some advice please...

I was almost about to purchase a 996 (probably a 2002/3 3.6L cabriolet, 65,000 miles) but I've just realised that I can get an impact bumper air cooled 1989 Targa with maybe 120k miles for around the same money.

The car isn't a daily driver, it'll be used for about 5,000 miles per year maximum, though I'm planning a 2,000 mile tour around France and Italy this summer. I want fresh air motoring so targa/cabriolet appeal.

So which should I go for? Reliability is important, especially given the summer trip. But fun is also important. I'd also like to think that depreciation will be minimal on either of these over a few years, but appreciation would be nice too!

Thoughts people please...?

Stewart Lund

Sorry, not sure what happened to the thread title but I don't seem to be able to edit that!

theiceman

Air cooled will level or go up 996 will continue to plummet

Drisump

Depends on many factors. My buddy has a 996 cab and it is a very reliable, comfortable modern car. The air-cooled cars are also very reliable but possess many less creature comforts. The 996 offers working climate controls and top down comfort at approaching the freezing level. I've never driven a 993 cab, even though I own a 993 coupe. The coupe is markedly more comfortable than my 85 Targa (working heat and A/C, better ride, and generally a more refined experience). The 996 driving experience may be considered "numb" by comparison to the air cooled cars. I can't predict what the market will value in the future but recently (in general) the air cooled cars have offered an appreciating asset and the water cooled variety a depreciating one.

theiceman

The most important thing to consider is the probability of catastrophic engine failures that plague the 996. Instance they will argue are low. But the severity is massive.

Do your homework on ims bearing failures and scored cylinders.

Drisump

"Do your homework on ims bearing failures and scored cylinders."[/QUOTE]
I have had a buddy who's engine "grenaded" in around the 100k miles mark. No warning.....The scoring issue is one that seems to be debated. One idea is the engines lubrication system is simply not up to the task in a high "g" application. The air cooled are all dry sumped engines, meaning they are all set up to lube properly even at extreme g's. The engines of the air cooled cars have proven themselves over the years to be extremely robust. Valve guides and head studs are perhaps the only commonly known issue. Some cars never have a problem with head studs but the guides in all cars will eventually need replacement. My 85 (touch wood) hasn't needed changing @105k miles. Many solutions and warning systems (for the IMS issue) are now available from companies such as LN Engineering. The good news is the cars are offered up so cheap (at least the 996) a guy should maybe budget installation of the newest engineering to prevent such an outcome. Short of buying a Metzger powered (Turbo, GT2, GT3 variants) car, it's my understanding that all 996/997's have this Achilles heal. Cheers

Stewart Lund

Thanks for the feedback...Are there no similar "big" issues on the '80s air cooled cars?

rstarga

Head studs valve guides and timing chains are the weak points for some years.

Stewart Lund

Are the head studs, valve guide and timing chains more or a gradual decline rather than catastrophic failure like the IMS bearing on the 996 so easier to spot?

JCP911S

These are all wear items that can be detected in a PPI.

BTW, all engines can fail catastrophically.

If you buy a 996, doing the IMS is not ridiculously expensive (by Porsche standards), and many of the cars I see advertised, have already had this done.

IMHO, it is a matter of taste... like asking "should I marry a blonde opera singer, or a brunette accountant?"

Drive both and see what you like... both are great cars, but very different.

The 3.2 Carrara is a "collector" car, and valued as such... I'd doubt you can find a clean, no issue car for under $30-35USD in today's market.

You can still get a very clean 60-80Kmi 996 cab all day long for under $30KUSD in your choice of colors, and I doubt whether they will depreciate any further if kept in good condition.

Don't think you can get hurt either way, if you like the car and intend to keep it for a while.

HorstP

Dropped off my 3.2 at the shop to get a new exhaust system installed. He has more than 20 996/997 with engine failures at the shop. His simple advice for getting a very good water-cooled car at a good price: Buy a well maintained car with an engine failure, get the engine done and enjoy many years of trouble free driving.

theiceman

the typical engine issues on air cooled cars , broken studs, worn valves arent ceap to fix but they can be fixed. many 996 issues require engine replacement a its so expensive to fix. its good to see more places starting to do it tho.

Fast40th

JCP911s summed it up nicely. I own both types and each offers a different experience. Definitely you must drive both and decide for yourself. Is it old school or somewhat more modern amenities that you seek?

You can scratch the appreciation in value on the 996 - unless you're chasing a GT3 or another rare special model. And the air cooled you mentioned may or may not radically appreciate much in the immediate future (but most likely vs. the 996). Thus focus more on buying the car for yourself and your enjoyment in the present time. Don't buy the car for the "next owner" or as an "investment".

For me both of these cars have made dreams happen, created memorable experiences, discovered new friends, roads, and places, provide serious entertainment, and bring endless joy behind their wheels.

jdjones2010

They ALL have Issues & they're ALL Waaaaay Over Priced! I mean, when you Compare the HP, Torque & Interior for these cars JUST Because you can say you're driving a Porsche! REALLY!

jdjones2010

Well, you can Start by going to the water-cooled thread & then the 996 thread about things you Didn't Know about the 911 & go from there & then go to the Air-Cooled Section for which year you're thinking about!