brianpizzuti

Time to ask the experts before I go down a road to far.

I have been wanting to build/ or have built a 911 outlaw. I am thinking that the best path would be as follows:

1)Purchasing a solid rust free 74-85 911 as inexpensively as possible.
2) try to rebuild or modify aggressively the existing engine - wish to get to 250+ HP
3). I would of course update transmission, suspension, etc

Or do I look to buy a solid 74-76 912 and add a type 4 engine and try to get all the hp I can out of it.

Anyone built one lately. Any idea of what cost range i am looking at for mechanicals only ? I know much of this is how far I want to go but I need a project I guess

I am not looking to track it. Just to have a very fun unique weekend cruiser that won't need a lot of maintenance

JCP911S

How good a mechanic are you?

With air-cooled 911 prices going through the roof, clean cars are pushing $20-25K. But there are still ratty cars out there for $10K or so.

Budget $6-12K for engine work. $3K for gearbox. $6-12K for bodywork, and $3-5K for incidentals.

Based on this, building a hot rod 911 SC with 250HP would cost between $30K if you do all the work yourself, to $60K+ if you outsource most of it.

IMHO, if you have a $25K budget, buy a nice stock SC/Carrara, and you'll have a really nice car that will appreciate over time

brianpizzuti

I am an average mechanic but much of this will be sent out.

The estimate on body work, does that include rear wide body fenders and maybe a ducktail?

Shannon123

You may want to check pelican to see if there are any projects that are up for sale.....there are usually a few. Might be a bit cheaper alternative than starting from scratch.

tulliotk

If you go with a '76 912E, contact Jake Raby. He is a well-known Type IV expert. He can build you a very reliable hi-po Type IV for the 912. http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/

brianpizzuti

Thanks for the reference. I emailed Jake and he has already responded with some great info.

So what would you get Mezger or a high power type 4?

tulliotk

The Type IV will never put out the power of a good 911 six, but I think it's fun to try to build an ultimate underdog. I had an old VW Bus with the Type IV, and it was a good motor.

Trader220

Are you looking for 250 bhp at the crank or at the wheels?

If you're looking for 250bhp at the crank and you're not doing the work you better start with a motor that’s in pretty good nick and then plan on adding at least $10 grand probably more depending on what you start with.

On a 3.2 Carrera motor, 3.4 P&C's, cams and going to a twin plug set up, along with a better flowing exhaust and a better mapped chip will get you a reliable 250 bhp at the crank.

JCP911S

I'd start with a solid, but ratty 911 SC/Carrara.

The key to performance on these cars is not hyper-expensive engines, but reduced weight. A stock, chipped 3.2 Carrara or Euro-spec 3.0 with headers and free-flow exhaust will do 220-230 HP at the crank.

Doing a long-bumper fiberglass body kit on one of these cars will give a cool R-Grouppe vibe, and reduced weight for a reasonable cost.

Then just rip anything out of the car that does not make it go, turn or stop... insulation, A/C, crash bumpers, sunroof, rear seats, etc, etc. You can easily pull almost 300 lbs out of the car... adding lightness is much cheaper than adding HP and also improves cornering and braking performance.

With newly reduced weight, the stock brakes and suspension lowered to Euro ride height will be more than adequate if rebuilt to factory specs.

In this configuration, the car will look cool and be wickedly fast.

If budget allows some further mods will add performance.

A full set of Elephant Racing bushings will improve handling accuracy.

Quality adjustable sway-bars will allow for fine tuning handling.

Close ratio gears will greatly improve acceleration up to 100 MPH speeds.

Have fun

brianpizzuti

Thanks for the advice, great stuff. I bought the car today. I think it is perfect, 88 g50 car that is rust free.

tcsracing1

Starting with a good base is key. The less bodywork, the better.

I would start with a 912 SWB or 1978-1983SC.

You can spend North of $50k easy on one of these projects...

Accumoto make a killer SC outlaw. I would contact them for their wheels and anything else you can snag from them...

VintageRacer

I promise. This build as you describe it is going to be more expensive than you think.

Just buy an already built early longhood and forget about modifying a later one.

brianpizzuti

Likely you are right. Meeting with a body man next week to check out cost of adding flared fenders and and entire color change repair

I am thinking about doing the engine, trans, and exhaust work and then leaving brakes and exhaust for another year.

The car I bought had brown interior. Last owner was in process of covering to black. So I need carpet. Door panels etc as well in black as a basic need. Maybe next year I replace the leather seats etc

I know it will a quite expensive. I have a number in my head for mechanicals that I am hoping I can work with. Body I am hoping to get by with about $8500 between paint and parts. Looking at pelican and eBay I can find the flares for fenders and ducktail reasonably priced. Haven't found the front air under bumper piece resembling 73 Rs yet that works on a 88 however. I see many outlaws that have this back dated converted look but not sure where they found this

GTgears

With that late of a car you get the pleasure of removing the rocker trim and filling the holes while you try to make it look early. That will add a nice chunk to the body and paint budget.

I advise leaving the rear flares as they are. They are plenty wide. Focus on the front fenders and nose and just convert the rear bumperettes.

brianpizzuti

Currently the car has stock replica Fuch 8 inch rear wheels. How wide of a wheel/tire can I get into the stock fender. I love the look of the large back tires jammed into the fenders.