rt61

The car won't start on my '82 911SC. It is getting "fire", but not enough fuel. It runs as long as I'm turning over the starter.

I'm looking for a good mechanic in the LA/South Bay/Redondo area that is good at working with CIS, and also has the necessary equipment to make sure I pass SMOG.

I've seen general recommendations for Alex Wong (Precision Technical), Tony Callas, and Otto (where?).

I would also appreciate suggestions/tips on things I can do to try to resolve the starting problem.

The rest of the story:
1) Just had the engine rebuilt. Installed the engine 2 weeks ago and it fired up very roughly. Adjusted the mixture in the fuel distributor and it ran very nicely. After it was turned off, the engine had a small, but consistent oil leak (due to a crinkled seal in one of the cylinders).

2) I removed the engine with the fuel distributor and airbox. I returned it to the rebuilder to make the repairs.

3) Put the engine back in and it won't start. It will backfire when pressing down the accelerator while trying to start.

Here are the steps I've taken already:
a) Verified that I have the plug wires in the correct order
b) Verified continuity from distributor cap to end of the plug wire
c) 3 gallons of fresh fuel and dry gas added to the tank two weeks ago (I had previously removed most of the gas from the tank).
d) Spark plugs were gapped and re-tightened after allowing oil pressure to build up by turning over the engine without fuel pump running
e) Let the fuel pump run for 30 seconds and with fuel distributor plunger pushed up to get fuel into the line.
f) Verified the timing with a timing light

Prior to engine rebuild (last year), I had starting troubles that ended up with having a shop replacing the fuel pump with a rebuilt Bosch, and rebuilding the fuel distributor (apparently the seals had swollen). The fuel filter has less than 2000 miles on it, but the vehicle has been on the jack stands since last December.

As part of the rebuild, I also cleaned all of the fuel injectors using the OTC fuel injector cleaner with compressed air and solvent. I had good spray & response from all injectors.

While the engine was removed, I covered up the ends of the fuel filter, fuel tank return line, and fuel accumulator with masking tape. I did likewise on the lines that went to the fuel distributor.

Even so, it seems there is a fuel blockage or restriction.

I'm planning on removing the intake fuel line hose from the fuel filter to the fuel distributor and blowing it out with compressed air. Any other suggestions?

After getting this fixed, I'll still need a mechanic to set the fuel/air mixture to ensure that I pass SMOG next year.

Your advice is appreciated.

Peter Zimmermann

Call Marc Bixen at Red Line Service. He just relocated his shop to WLA, his new phone number is 310-280-0700. He's just off the 10 using the Robertson off ramp (3387 Livonia Ave). Marc is an absolute professional, so your car will be in good hands.

rt61

I appreciate your advice. Hey - I bought your book in 2000 in prep for buying my '82 SC from my Uncle. Before the engine rebuild, I had 232K miles on it. I will note that two valve springs were found to be broken. While a number of items were replaced & repaired, the overall engine was in pretty good shape.

Sidenote - It's interesting that Amazon is selling the 2003 edition of "The Used 911 Story" for nearly double the price of the 2006 (8th edition).

Best wishes.
Rick

Ed Hughes

Out of curiosity, who rebuilt your engine? Are they local and capable?

Peter Zimmermann

Rick, thanks for the nice note! Who could have guessed that earlier editions might become semi-collectible? And I saved...almost none of each edition! I'm not even sure if I have a complete set!

rt61

In fairness to the rebuilder, I won't mention his name. To save money, I took on the responsibility of getting the engine back in, and he was to work on the engine itself after I discovered the compression in two of the cylinders were sickeningly low after a leakdown test. - I had only intended on replacing the clutch. What a rabbit hole...

He is local and I believe him to be capable. He came over to pick up the engine, and helped me put it back in. He admits to having poor CIS knowledge. He did discover that he had put the distributor in 180 degrees out of phase. Even after that was fixed, the starting problem remained. He suspects that the engine isn't getting enough fuel pressue.

As noted, the engine had started 2 weeks ago, but had to be taken back out to fix the oil leak. The changes:
1) Fuel Distributor & Airbox removed and put back on - possible debris gotten into one of the intake or return lines on engine or chassis side? (I had put masking tape on all open hose ends.)
2) Wiring harness disconnected; removed and reattached - possible open circuit, or wire incorrectly attached?
3) Vacuum hoses disconnected and reattached - Hoses not fully attached, or cracked? - Would leaks really prevent starting?

Your further thoughs welcome.

race911

Get really bad feelings when I hear "held down accelerator when trying to start"............ Sure the airbox isn't now blown? Or other massive vacuum leak?

Not that there's anything otherwise wrong internally here, but what 911 air cooled "rebuilder" doesn't know CIS inside and out?

theiceman

First thing that comes to mind is that the two blue connectors are plugged in and not switched around. Safety cut off and cold start injector.

Peter Zimmermann

Brilliant!

rt61

Could you clarify the advice:
First thing that comes to mind is that the two blue connectors are plugged in and not switched around. Safety cut off and cold start injector.

Could you direct me to a diagram or photo of these connectors? If referring to sensor on left timing cover, the spades are different sizes to prevent mix-up. I don't know about sensors on the right side.

Upon checking fuel pressure, I blew the O2 Sensor fuse (#18). Here are the details.

I started checking the fuel pressure last night. Connected between fuel distributor and the WUR.

Upon 1st try, nothing. I put the "shorting switch" between 30 & 87 vice 30 and 87a on the fuel pump relay. I verified that the fuel pump fuse #16 (25A) was good, and I noticed that #18 (5A) was blown. I replaced it and learned that it goes to both the cabin light and O2 Sensor. With a new fuse, the light and clock started working.

I turned the ignition key to on; heard a high pitched whine; turned the switch to short the fuel pump relay - and saw a flash (turns out to be fuse #18 for the OXS); and heard the fuel pump running. Got what seemed like good pressure (over 30 psi, didn't measure as I saw a leak at the connectors to the gauge). Residual pressure loooked good after I turned off the ignition. Took > 10 seconds to slowly drop down to 0 psi.

I checked the O2 sensor connection - it was connected and didn't have any short to ground. The Bentley schematic shows that the #18 fuse runs directly to the WUR. I am going to check that next for some sort of short to ground or oppositely connected wires. However, I thought the wires had different sized connectors.

If that isn't the problem, any other ideas?
I still need to check the condition of the airbox. How do you do that? VIsual inspection? Look inside pop-off valve?

I'll re-verify the timing mark on the distributor at TDC, as well as check the timing to be 5 degrees TDC with both vacuum lines to the distributor plugged.

Here are other steps taken to resolve the issue

1) I verified the spark plug wire sequence. I've done that wrong before with similar results in symptoms. (Put them in counter-clockwise order)
2) New boots on the intake runners
3) New gaskets on the manifold-to-intake runners
4) New seals and injector sleeves
5) Last year I replaced O2 Sensor relay under the seat & fuel filter when having start/run problems. This was eventually diagnosed at local shop as swollen plunger seals in the fuel distributor. As part of that diagnosis, the fuel pump was replaced with new Bosch.
6) Mostly emptied out gas tank when engine was out; added 3 gallons of fresh premium gas 2 weeks ago and some dry gas fluid.
7) Several days ago, when I had the remote starter connected, I could NOT get the car to stay running even as the meter plate was being lifted. Would stop running after stopped cranking. BUT- didn't recall hearing the fuel pump running like I did last night. Jiggling wires and doing whatever at the fuse box may have closed an "OPEN" to the fuel pump power.

Hope to have time tonight to run the next set of checks. Just not certain what to do if I can't figure out why the OXS fuse blew.

As always, your advice and comments are valued.

rt61

Is 26 ohms a good value for the Warm-up regulator, and does it matter which lead connects to the 12v?

theiceman

if you dont know what iim talking about and you put your own wngine back in ... uh oh ...

There are two connectors tha are interchangable, one is on the back of the air plate sensor.. they are damn near impossible to plug in and unplug with the engine in place. The other is the cold start injector that is the "7th injector" for starting that injects fuel into the intake manifold..

make sure they are ;lugged in and plugged into the correct locations

rt61

It looks like your advice on the connectors may solve my problem.

As for being knowledgeable enough to do a drop - You've got to start somewhere. So, yes - this was my 1st engine drop. I had only intended upon replacing the clutch, but as rabbit holes go, this was a big one. Really bad leak-down test on 2 cylinders necessitated the engine rebuild.

I was meticulous in taking photos upon disassembly. You'll see that the '82 SC actually has four connectors vice the three in your photos: (when looking from the back) - Green-upper right; Large Black-Center; Blue-Lower Center; and Black-Upper Right.

You will also see that in the present photo the Green was swapped on the right with the Black.

As a precaution, I removed the fuses and used a brass Dremel bit to buff the fuse ends and the holders. I also tightened down the screws in the fuse box. A few were in need of tightening.

Next, I took out the vacuum lines and tested them for leaks with an air pump and bucket of water. Found a minor leak in the hose that goes to the deceleration valve.

I also noticed that the intake manifold hoses into the airbox were only snug. I tightened them down on the left side, but can't reach the ones on the right side under the airbox. Is snug good enough, or should I fully drop the engine again to more firmly tighten the hose clamps?

theiceman

Sounds like you are at least on the road.

Okay who's up next ?