911 camshaft oiling update - anyone done this ?
05-11-2010, 03:05 PM
#1
Burning Brakes
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911 camshaft oiling update - anyone done this ?
I'm in the Mid Ohio Region and back in Feb our newletter had an article about replacing the adapters on the cam oiler lines with updated parts that had a smaller oriface, which was to reduice oil consumption and also helped with oil pressure.
Has anyone here done this proceedure ? What was your experience. I just recently ordered the two replacement bolts/banjo bolts to do the job. The new part # = 901.105.361.01
See the entire tech talk article on page 24:
http://morpca.org/page6/page31/files...ary%202010.pdf
or here's my attempt at a cut and paste of the article "" Start Quote
Tech Talk 911 Camshaft Oiling Update
By Steve Grosekemper, San Diego Region
(from THE WINDBLOWN WITNESS)
One of the benefits of writing a monthly article
like this is the great input I get from readers.
From time to time, they will send me interesting
technical bulletins or articles to evaluate.
One such article was written by Lee Rice, appearing
in last September’s Pandemonium, the
Orange Coast Region newsletter.
The article discussed the existence of an updated
cam oil line fitting for the cam housing on
pre-3.6L 911 engines. It restricts oil flow to the
camshafts by nearly 50%. I thought the article
was quite interesting, but I still had some questions
that Lee’s article did not answer. I decided
to go straight to the source, and exchanged
several e-mails with Lee to get all the facts.
After several conversations and some additional
investigations by both of us, here is what we
came up with.
911 engines from late 1966 all the way to the
last 1989 3.2L Carreras and 1990 3.3L Turbos
use the same adapter piece connecting
the cam oil line to the camshaft housing (part
#901.105.361.00) (figure 1).
Starting with the 1991 911 Turbo, this adapter
was replaced with a new updated part with a
reduced center orifice. Porsche has not given
much information as to the reason for the update,
other than it reduces oil foaming. The new
adapter (part #901.105.361.01) is differentiated
from the older adapter by a groove around the
center when installed on an engine. Figure 2
shows the original adapter with 6mm orifice
and the new one with the 2.5mm orifice.
Oil foaming is caused when there is too much
oil in the crankcase and it gets “whipped up” by
the rapidly rotating internal parts. You might be
wondering (much like I did) if such a large reduction
in orifice size would still deliver enough
oil to the cam housings. To find out, I installed
these adapters on several cars with greatly varied
oiling needs and scenarios.
One of weakest oiling systems I installed the
adapters on was a 1975 911S. This was a high
mileage car that had no front oil cooler, a small
early style oil pump, and was still running the
original 5-blade cooling fan. The thermal reactors
were still in place. As you can imagine, it did not
take long to see 220-230 degrees of oil temperature
and no idle oil pressure. I figured that if the
updated fitting worked in this car, it would work
in anything.
After installing the adapters, I pulled the top
valve covers and had someone start the engine.
Oil vigorously sprayed from all of the holes in the
camshaft spray bar, which told me there was no
need to worry about low oil volume to the cam
housing. The surprise bonus was that the car now
showed about 10 psi on the oil pressure gauge
instead of a bright red warning light. All this for
two $5.10 fittings!
The next test was on my 914-6 racecar, which
has an interesting camshaft/cam housing setup.
The cam housings are later ‘74s with a central oil
spray bar. The camshafts, however, are ’66 911
cams with internal oiling (oil pressure from the
cam journal exits holes at the heel of the cam).
25
February 2010
Porsche used one or the other, but never both
types of oiling in the same engine due to the
inevitable loss of oil pressure at idle. I installed
the updated fittings and ran the same valve cover
test.
This time I was amazed to witness what could
only be described as a very messy geyser of oil
coming from the right side cam housing. With
210 degree oil temperature, the oil pressure was
almost 30psi due to the engine’s turbo oil pump.
Pressure with the old fittings was closer to 10 psi.
After all our tests, we came up with the following
conclusions:
• The fittings decrease oil to the cam housings
and decrease oil foaming.
• The decreased foaming allows the scavenge oil
pump to transfer oil out of the case and into the
storage tank much faster. This in turn keeps the
oil tank level more consistent and causes the oil
level gauge to react quicker.
• Less oil foaming will lead to less consumption
of oil through the engine breather system.
• The smaller orifice creates higher oil pressure
at the main and rod bearings as well as at the
piston squirters. We noticed a 10-20 psi increase
in oil pressure. Nothing to sneeze at.
All in all, these fittings seem to be a great addition
to any early 911 engine. With an extremely
low cost and huge lubrication benefit, I am sure
that even the most frugal 911 owner will be eager
to spend a little and gain a lot in performing this
update.
Special thanks goes out to Lee Rice for his help
and initiative regarding this article.
Good Luck.
End quote ""
Tom
Has anyone here done this proceedure ? What was your experience. I just recently ordered the two replacement bolts/banjo bolts to do the job. The new part # = 901.105.361.01
See the entire tech talk article on page 24:
http://morpca.org/page6/page31/files...ary%202010.pdf
or here's my attempt at a cut and paste of the article "" Start Quote
Tech Talk 911 Camshaft Oiling Update
By Steve Grosekemper, San Diego Region
(from THE WINDBLOWN WITNESS)
One of the benefits of writing a monthly article
like this is the great input I get from readers.
From time to time, they will send me interesting
technical bulletins or articles to evaluate.
One such article was written by Lee Rice, appearing
in last September’s Pandemonium, the
Orange Coast Region newsletter.
The article discussed the existence of an updated
cam oil line fitting for the cam housing on
pre-3.6L 911 engines. It restricts oil flow to the
camshafts by nearly 50%. I thought the article
was quite interesting, but I still had some questions
that Lee’s article did not answer. I decided
to go straight to the source, and exchanged
several e-mails with Lee to get all the facts.
After several conversations and some additional
investigations by both of us, here is what we
came up with.
911 engines from late 1966 all the way to the
last 1989 3.2L Carreras and 1990 3.3L Turbos
use the same adapter piece connecting
the cam oil line to the camshaft housing (part
#901.105.361.00) (figure 1).
Starting with the 1991 911 Turbo, this adapter
was replaced with a new updated part with a
reduced center orifice. Porsche has not given
much information as to the reason for the update,
other than it reduces oil foaming. The new
adapter (part #901.105.361.01) is differentiated
from the older adapter by a groove around the
center when installed on an engine. Figure 2
shows the original adapter with 6mm orifice
and the new one with the 2.5mm orifice.
Oil foaming is caused when there is too much
oil in the crankcase and it gets “whipped up” by
the rapidly rotating internal parts. You might be
wondering (much like I did) if such a large reduction
in orifice size would still deliver enough
oil to the cam housings. To find out, I installed
these adapters on several cars with greatly varied
oiling needs and scenarios.
One of weakest oiling systems I installed the
adapters on was a 1975 911S. This was a high
mileage car that had no front oil cooler, a small
early style oil pump, and was still running the
original 5-blade cooling fan. The thermal reactors
were still in place. As you can imagine, it did not
take long to see 220-230 degrees of oil temperature
and no idle oil pressure. I figured that if the
updated fitting worked in this car, it would work
in anything.
After installing the adapters, I pulled the top
valve covers and had someone start the engine.
Oil vigorously sprayed from all of the holes in the
camshaft spray bar, which told me there was no
need to worry about low oil volume to the cam
housing. The surprise bonus was that the car now
showed about 10 psi on the oil pressure gauge
instead of a bright red warning light. All this for
two $5.10 fittings!
The next test was on my 914-6 racecar, which
has an interesting camshaft/cam housing setup.
The cam housings are later ‘74s with a central oil
spray bar. The camshafts, however, are ’66 911
cams with internal oiling (oil pressure from the
cam journal exits holes at the heel of the cam).
25
February 2010
Porsche used one or the other, but never both
types of oiling in the same engine due to the
inevitable loss of oil pressure at idle. I installed
the updated fittings and ran the same valve cover
test.
This time I was amazed to witness what could
only be described as a very messy geyser of oil
coming from the right side cam housing. With
210 degree oil temperature, the oil pressure was
almost 30psi due to the engine’s turbo oil pump.
Pressure with the old fittings was closer to 10 psi.
After all our tests, we came up with the following
conclusions:
• The fittings decrease oil to the cam housings
and decrease oil foaming.
• The decreased foaming allows the scavenge oil
pump to transfer oil out of the case and into the
storage tank much faster. This in turn keeps the
oil tank level more consistent and causes the oil
level gauge to react quicker.
• Less oil foaming will lead to less consumption
of oil through the engine breather system.
• The smaller orifice creates higher oil pressure
at the main and rod bearings as well as at the
piston squirters. We noticed a 10-20 psi increase
in oil pressure. Nothing to sneeze at.
All in all, these fittings seem to be a great addition
to any early 911 engine. With an extremely
low cost and huge lubrication benefit, I am sure
that even the most frugal 911 owner will be eager
to spend a little and gain a lot in performing this
update.
Special thanks goes out to Lee Rice for his help
and initiative regarding this article.
Good Luck.
End quote ""
Tom
05-11-2010, 03:57 PM
#2
Race Car
Sounds plausible. I would think that a good quality oil(synthetic)with a high cold-pour rate would help insure the cams are lubed at cold start. I think some really smart guys here may chime in however and shed some light on this. Thanks for the post.
05-11-2010, 06:19 PM
#3
Racer
I installed these on a 1980 several years ago. Peak oil pressure doesn,t change but the car shows better than 1 bar oil pressure when at a hot idle. This 3.0 911 often showed almost nothing at idle when very hot before this change.
05-11-2010, 08:28 PM
#4
Team Owner
This came up quite a few years ago and for myself i decided i did not want to cut back on the oil supply to the cam shafts. i am not even sure this was a Porsche approved mod ay any time.
05-11-2010, 08:32 PM
#5
Intermediate
Years of experience. At Red Line Service we've been replacing these fittings since Porsche originally sent the update bulletin. The basic rule of thumb is that you replace the cam oil line fittings 1) if there is aeration in the oil. In other words if you remove your dipstick and you see bubbles in the oil replace the cam line fittings ASAP. 2) If you are preforming any work when these fittings are accessible. At Red Line we always replace the fittings whenever preforming an engine repair or rebuild, or any time we replace cam oil lines.
The new fittings can easily be identified by a groove machined around the circumference of the fitting in the area where the wrench fits. This also makes it very easy to identify whether this part is already installed in your car with NO disassembly.
These fittings are available from your dealer or on-line at RedLineTechnik.com Also always order quantity 6 of the STEEL factory seal washers for the banjo bolts.
Peter Zimmermann is currently working on a Technical tutorial about installing these fittings. You can view this as soon as we post the tutorial at RedLineTechnik.com
The new fittings can easily be identified by a groove machined around the circumference of the fitting in the area where the wrench fits. This also makes it very easy to identify whether this part is already installed in your car with NO disassembly.
These fittings are available from your dealer or on-line at RedLineTechnik.com Also always order quantity 6 of the STEEL factory seal washers for the banjo bolts.
Peter Zimmermann is currently working on a Technical tutorial about installing these fittings. You can view this as soon as we post the tutorial at RedLineTechnik.com
05-11-2010, 08:35 PM
#6
Intermediate
To answer "iceman's" doubt. This is the only part available from porsche. the 901.105.361.00 supercedes to 901.105.361.01. This is a Porsche recommended update. The cams will recieve more than enough lubrication.
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05-11-2010, 08:55 PM
#8
Rennlist Member
I was rolling along reading that and having an "oh, yeah" moment as it's been forever since I've touched a pre-3.6L engine...........and then there's this: "Starting with the 1991 911 Turbo.........." They carried over the chain/housing/tensioner architecture of the prior engines, and not as the 3.6L's. Right? Or have I completely lost my memory?
05-11-2010, 08:55 PM
#9
Intermediate
I'll photo a pair tomorrow at the shop and post it with a comparison to the 00 fitting I'll also give you the part # for the seal washers. By the way May Porsche retail pricing on the fitting is $16.94 each. They have gone up in price the last year.
05-12-2010, 02:37 AM
#11
Rennlist Member
More to read on this subject with posts from Grady Clay and Steve W about this. I put the restrictors on and removed them a year later after reading this. My oil pressure has always been good.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-e...orsepower.html
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-e...orsepower.html
05-12-2010, 09:46 AM
#12
Team Owner
Great article .... incidentally my oil pressure is not low at all as I run 20/50 dyno and it gets pretty cold up here sometimes.. Just something to think about
05-12-2010, 10:06 AM
#13
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2004
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Received 0 Likes
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So where exactly do the updated adapters/banjo bolts go? I'm guessing they are in the top of each head based on the technotes pdf link.
See below, I cut and pasted the photo from the article. Do i also need to buy an update hollow bolt or will the original one work? I've already purchased the new adapters(yep they were 15 each at the local p dealer) but I still need the crush washers.
Tom
See below, I cut and pasted the photo from the article. Do i also need to buy an update hollow bolt or will the original one work? I've already purchased the new adapters(yep they were 15 each at the local p dealer) but I still need the crush washers.
Tom
05-12-2010, 11:42 AM
#14
Rennlist Member
The adaptors screw into the camshaft housings at cylinders #1 & #4. They can be found at the lower, rear corner of each upper (intake) rocker arm cover.
