Brian911

Sorry if this gets a tad long.
Here is whats up. My friend and a\I are always going back and forth about our cars. He has a 2000 or 2001 Honda Civic with V-Tec. HE does have exhaust and a couple other performance goodies but it is not really "riced" out. I have the 1980 SC 3.2 He keeps saying that hands down his car is faster than mine, I have to spend more money on up keep, his will corner better, he even thinks his factory paint job is better. I have tried to complement his car to get him to do the same but that doesn't even work. Comming from the Chevy group over to Porsche and having a car that is considerably older I do not have much amunition to shoot with. My argument is that the P-car carries a legacy of greatness, he even stuffs that by mentioning the honda engines in F1, and that my car was built to race. He tries to compare the numbers on the cars and says that his has more horses and can drag my car out. It might be able to because my car was not made to drag.
Bottom line is that I need some comebacks from the more experienced P-car guys so I can bury my stubborn friend. I know the P-car is better than the hinda but I can't prove it. I will not race him because #1 don't want to hurt the car, 2) illegal and cops are cracking down, and 30 this is already a huge sausage contest. Please help all, especially if its real techical stuff, I need the back up!!!

Thanks in advance. <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

Stuttgart951

You dont mention which model Civic he has, but unless he has a blower under the hood or a shot of nitrous, he isnt putting more power down than your 3.2L. Youll simply have to explain to him that a cone air filter and a muffler dont equal together to make 40 additional HP - more than likely the number is around 3.

I wouldnt even waste my time racing the clown. Tell him if he is that confident in the abilities of his 1.7L, FWD, economy car, you would be glad to place a wager on a lap or two at a local road course.

Then listen to his excuses.

RANDY P

Nonsense. That car is a tin can dressed up as a racer. Honda is a little boy's car. It goes a lot farther than just a few ambigous references and a few distant comparisions to a full-on race effort. A Porsche is about 1,000,000,000 times better built, it's a better quality car. Look at the thickness of the sheet metal, the quality of the interior and the fittings, the ability to add on HP easily, don't forget the legendary reliablilty of the 911, pressed at redline for hours and hours on end. Without failure. Honda can't do that. A good amount of the 911's produced years ago are still like new in condition, you can't say that about anything Japanese even 10 years old.

Porsche has wins in almost every motorsports venue ever created, Paris - Dakar, Le Mans, on and on. The tunability / adaptability of the 911 is legendary. Porsche is there, where is Honda?

That should be self - evident. But then again, how could a million adolescents be wrong?

Marketing hype, and pop culture are what comprise the "import racer" image. Hondas are cheap, easy to obtain, and colorful. Henceforth the popularity, and the hype. If he can't see it, he just doesn't get it. You ever seen what has to be done even to appreciate a real increase in power in one of those things? Aftermarket cranks, rods, heads, pistons, etc. etc - it's not built to last. Check out the rigs in "import tuner" it's a common requirement to extract power from those plants. (Pardon me, I'm not specific to the exact engine model names and so on, I just don't care)

Give him some Clearsil and a few doses of Ritalin and tell him to shut up.

rjp

Brian911

My apologies, he has a Honda Civic SI. He brags saying he is part of the 100hp per liter club and and that I do not even have 200hp. I am not sure if I do or not because is the SC FAQ it only lists the 3.0 and not the 3.2 which is what I have. My mechanic tells me that the option for the 3.2 was only availabe on Euro Porsches.
Anyhow being two 22 year olds we must make each others cars suound better than they are. Keep up the great posts.

RANDY P

I forgot, just by the simple fact you own a Civic and think of it as a "racer" automatically makes you a ricer. Type "R" sticker or not.

Remember the adage, "attitude is everything"

rjp

RANDY P

Those dorks with Hondas when I was in HS used to tell me that their car's were "more efficient" (and yet another ricer technicality) and therefore better - "I have 100BHP per liter!!"

"So what?" I would say -

And then I would blast a 12.0 @ 118 with my inefficient SB. Who cares about some hair - splitting technicality like that. Guess whatever makes you feel beter. Fact is, it sucks, and it will always suck to have a Honda.

rjp

(Former 89 Interga owner, 1.6 DOHC w/ Anza cat back - been there, done that. 90BHP /liter, blah blah)

emcon5

[quote]Originally posted by Brian911:
<strong>I do or not because is the SC FAQ it only lists the 3.0 and not the 3.2 which is what I have. My mechanic tells me that the option for the 3.2 was only availabe on Euro Porsches. </strong><hr></blockquote>

This is confusing. AFAIK there were no factory 3.2 SC's. the 3.2 didn't come until the introduction of the Carrera in 84. Bruce Anderson talks about a 3.2 conversion available in the aftermarket, done by replacing the stock 95mm pistons and cylinders with 98mm ones. According to his book, they claimed 220HP for this change.

I am not trying to be a dick, but what are you basing the 3.2 on? Is it CIS or Motronic? Is your car a euro model? For a 1980 model, the VIN should be
911A03xxxx for a ROW car or
911A04xxxx for a US model.

Also, what is you friend basing his 100hp/litre on? I can't find anything on the 2000 or 2001, but the 2002 Civic Si has 160HP for 2 litres. Not saying it is impossible, but I am skeptical that "exhaust and a couple other performance goodies" are good for 40hp.

If it was me, I'd just smile and say "If you say so, but it is still a Civic"

Tom
edit:spellin'

Stuttgart951

...or you could just tell him his engine's in the wrong spot?

Luke

Torque is what moves ya

Fassi I

I concur w/ everything said, except perhaps for "quality of the interior." Honestly, guys, I don't know if I'd go that far necessarily.

Brian911

emcon5,

no, you are not being a dick. I was told by the previous owner of my car it is a 3.2. Also, the sticker for its "American Entry" for lack of better words describes it as a 3.2. The smog guy says it is a 3.2 and Bill Gregory said it was a 3.2l when he matched the engine and vin numbers. I do know for a fact that it is a german for german use. I have the orig. book that was stamped for its first several services in Berlin. However, I show no swap records. It is CIS. I will check the vin tomorrow.

On top not being able to combat my friend I am still in the dark about my car. It may be that the engine was swapped but my mechanic knows his stuff. It makes for a hell of a time to get certain parts whether to order for the 80 or 84.

Keep the good posts comming. I am sure that everybody has some type of opinion and I appreciate them all. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

kenshi

Your car is there to move you, not your friend. You should not be bothered with what he has to say. Treat it like the annoying noise that comes out of those after market Honda mufflers.

I had a Civic Si hatchback a few hundred pimples ago, they are *excellent* cars. I did keep mine bone stock, seemed silly to throw all that money at a Civic.

Ell

You may not want to race him, however that is one of the strong point of your car. Jump up to 140 and see if his car can handles as well as yours. There is always a back road in the country were you can open them up.


<img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />

TYPE911

You have got to be kidding !
Its a f-in Honda. No comeback required.

Porsche, there is NO substitute

<img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />

MikeF

We seem to be overlooking one obvious difference. Your car is 23 years old...his is 2 years old. Kindly ask him to find a 23 year old Honda (yes they did make them in the 80's) and the race is on. Bottom line, there is not a Honda in the world that was built to last 23 years. Yet, he is expecting your 23 year old Porsche to be competitive with his 2001 Honda...and the good part it...your Porsche IS competitive with his 2 year old.

How about this....agree to meet up again in 20 years and give it a run. He must have the same Honda, and you the same Porsche (which will then be 43 years old). Chances are, you'll show up, his Civic will have long since deteriorated into dust.