Replacing Brake Lines
09-17-2005, 05:36 PM
#1
Professor of Pending Projects
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Replacing Brake Lines
Before you start:
Parts needed:
Brake lines, brake fluid (also a good time to check/change pads;adjust emergency brake, paint calipers, etc...
)
NOTE: YOU WILL NEED TO BLEED THE BRAKES AFTER REPLACING BRAKE LINES. Also a good time to bleed the clutch slave cylinder.
To do Stainless Steel lines or not to use Stainless Steel lines?
In my case I went with DOT approved SS lines. Why? Honestly, price. For around US$60.00, for all four, the cost was less than going with original lines... they look better (for the first few days anyway, until dirt gets to them), and it is another conversation piece ("yeah, I got those SS lines that they were discussing on Rennlist " )
New Lines:
First photo shows old front line vs new lines...
Notice the two D-shaped lines. Those D-shaped ends are needed to fit the front brackets. Make sure you get them that way when you buy them. Again, the D is only needed for the front lines as the rear line brackets are round.
Brake fluid. See other posts on what to use... in my case I already had two cans of ATE Blue... if I had to do it over again I would go with the ATE Gold (less mess if you get brake fluid anywhere as the blue dye stains everything). A few folks alternate between gold and blue to make it easier to know when to stop bleeding.
Special tools:
18mm, 17mm, 14mm and 11mm needed - When loosening the adapter use only a Flare Nut Wrench only to avoid damage to the flair adapter:
Once loose you can use a normal open wrench. You will also need a large flat screwdriver and some good pliers.
What about bleeding/flushing the brakes? There are many techniques out there... me, I recommend you get one of those Motive Power Bleeders. One man job and less mess to deal with.
Also, there is no need for the special Bosch tool (also known as The Hammer) if you have a C2 or even if you have a C4 (unless you are also bleeding the Diff locks):
Enough already! How do I start??
Start by placing the car on jack stands or a lift. You could do it one/two wheels at a time… but since this will require getting under the car and bleeding all lines, going around, etc. best to just have the thing up on all four wheels. It is a good time to check/replace pads since most of the work is the same.
USE ALL SAFETY PREACAUTIONS WHEN RAISING AND SECURING THE CAR. If the stress is too much, take it to a pro. You should not fool around with the brakes if you don’t have some level of mechanical experience… you know, brakes are somewhat needed when trying to stop the car…
Once up and secured, remove wheels and locate the caliper. Clean the area with some brake cleaner.
Let's start by loosening the flare adapter. Place a canister/bucket/oil catcher under the area because brake fluid will come out as you start to loosen the flair adapter.
Loosen the flair adapter with a 11mm flair nut wrench. Use a 17mm wrench in the back to hold the rest of the line and to avoid damage to the notch in the metal bracket:
Then remove the clip holding the line. I start with a large flat screwdriver and with a twist the clip comes out enough to then pull it with the pliers (anyone with a better technique please chime in):
Parts needed:
Brake lines, brake fluid (also a good time to check/change pads;adjust emergency brake, paint calipers, etc...
)NOTE: YOU WILL NEED TO BLEED THE BRAKES AFTER REPLACING BRAKE LINES. Also a good time to bleed the clutch slave cylinder.
To do Stainless Steel lines or not to use Stainless Steel lines?
Originally Posted by Bill Gregory
As Pete pointed out, stock rubber lines should be changed after around 10 years, as they can swell internally and impact hydraulic operation. As a contrarian on this, I don't recommend stainless lines as a neccessary upgrade for 964's. They seem to make more of a difference on earlier 911's. Even the factory today uses rubber lines (although I believe the part number may be different than stock).
Originally Posted by Cupcar
I did change to braided stainless and can't say if they made a difference or not as I changed from stock to Porterfield pads at same time. The pedal feel was much better after changing both, I just can't say why since I changed 2 variables. ABS seems to work OK.
I did learn the following things to watch out for:
1) Use the small diameter -3 tubing, it has the lowest volume expansion to pressure curve.
2) Use DOT approved lines as they are more durable than the non DOT teflon lines. I think they are reinforced with Keflar between tubing and stainless, but I'm not really sure of difference.
3)Make sure the ends of new line have the "D" shaped end correctly made to fit into the "D" shaped hole in the chassis bracket. The "D" shape has to be on both sides of the retaining groove, otherwise you have to file the flat on end of line like I did.
I did learn the following things to watch out for:
1) Use the small diameter -3 tubing, it has the lowest volume expansion to pressure curve.
2) Use DOT approved lines as they are more durable than the non DOT teflon lines. I think they are reinforced with Keflar between tubing and stainless, but I'm not really sure of difference.
3)Make sure the ends of new line have the "D" shaped end correctly made to fit into the "D" shaped hole in the chassis bracket. The "D" shape has to be on both sides of the retaining groove, otherwise you have to file the flat on end of line like I did.
" )New Lines:
First photo shows old front line vs new lines...
Notice the two D-shaped lines. Those D-shaped ends are needed to fit the front brackets. Make sure you get them that way when you buy them. Again, the D is only needed for the front lines as the rear line brackets are round.
Brake fluid. See other posts on what to use... in my case I already had two cans of ATE Blue... if I had to do it over again I would go with the ATE Gold (less mess if you get brake fluid anywhere as the blue dye stains everything). A few folks alternate between gold and blue to make it easier to know when to stop bleeding.
Special tools:
18mm, 17mm, 14mm and 11mm needed - When loosening the adapter use only a Flare Nut Wrench only to avoid damage to the flair adapter:
Once loose you can use a normal open wrench. You will also need a large flat screwdriver and some good pliers.
What about bleeding/flushing the brakes? There are many techniques out there... me, I recommend you get one of those Motive Power Bleeders. One man job and less mess to deal with.
Also, there is no need for the special Bosch tool (also known as The Hammer) if you have a C2 or even if you have a C4 (unless you are also bleeding the Diff locks):
Originally Posted by Marc Shaw
Start by placing the car on jack stands or a lift. You could do it one/two wheels at a time… but since this will require getting under the car and bleeding all lines, going around, etc. best to just have the thing up on all four wheels. It is a good time to check/replace pads since most of the work is the same.
USE ALL SAFETY PREACAUTIONS WHEN RAISING AND SECURING THE CAR. If the stress is too much, take it to a pro. You should not fool around with the brakes if you don’t have some level of mechanical experience… you know, brakes are somewhat needed when trying to stop the car…
Once up and secured, remove wheels and locate the caliper. Clean the area with some brake cleaner.
Let's start by loosening the flare adapter. Place a canister/bucket/oil catcher under the area because brake fluid will come out as you start to loosen the flair adapter.
Originally Posted by JasonAndreas
At least on a C2 you should pump the brake pedal about 20-30 times before you open a brake line to get rid of all the pressure. And to keep fluid from leaking out of the lines just push the brake pedal down about halfway and use a piece of wood or something wedged in front of the seat to keep it there. If the pedal is pushed down while the lines are open the fluid will stay in the lines.
Loosen the flair adapter with a 11mm flair nut wrench. Use a 17mm wrench in the back to hold the rest of the line and to avoid damage to the notch in the metal bracket:
Originally Posted by chris walrod
...When breaking loose hydraulic lines such as brake lines, it really helps to be very deliberate when cracking fittings loose. In other words, a nice sharp blow to the wrench (with your hands) is best.
The hardline fitting located at the front caliper has been know to break off while removing. The above mentioned 'sharp blow' helps avoid this..
Like stressed above, flare wrenches are a must!! The cost of these wrenches is quickly offset by not needing to buy new fittings etc.
The hardline fitting located at the front caliper has been know to break off while removing. The above mentioned 'sharp blow' helps avoid this..
Like stressed above, flare wrenches are a must!! The cost of these wrenches is quickly offset by not needing to buy new fittings etc.
Then remove the clip holding the line. I start with a large flat screwdriver and with a twist the clip comes out enough to then pull it with the pliers (anyone with a better technique please chime in):
09-17-2005, 05:45 PM
#2
Professor of Pending Projects
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Front line (closer to caliper):
Front line(closer to chasis):
More...
For the rear lines you will need to remove the engine tray to have access to the inside connection.
Old lines require a 17mm and 11mm to remove (caliper side) New (aftermarket ones) require 18mm wrench. (again, caliper side)
Old line in the rear removed (looking from under the car)
Here is one of the rear brake line bracket. As you can see it is round instead of having a flat side.
Rear
Front line(closer to chasis):
More...
For the rear lines you will need to remove the engine tray to have access to the inside connection.
Old lines require a 17mm and 11mm to remove (caliper side) New (aftermarket ones) require 18mm wrench. (again, caliper side)
Old line in the rear removed (looking from under the car)
Here is one of the rear brake line bracket. As you can see it is round instead of having a flat side.
Rear
09-17-2005, 05:49 PM
#3
Professor of Pending Projects
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Go over what you have done. Make sure all connections are tight and all clips are in place.
Bleed the brakes. Remember our cars have two bleeding nipples at each caliper. So bleed both! Check for leaks.
Install the engine tray (unless by now you are convinced this is just one more reason to leave it out
)
Install wheels.
As with any mod, your car should feel like it has gained an additional 25hp.
Go have fun.
Bleed the brakes. Remember our cars have two bleeding nipples at each caliper. So bleed both! Check for leaks.
Install the engine tray (unless by now you are convinced this is just one more reason to leave it out
)Install wheels.
As with any mod, your car should feel like it has gained an additional 25hp.
Go have fun.
09-17-2005, 09:31 PM
#7
Burgled
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Darn Jaime I went and ordered some yesterday. When it cools down in the next couple of months I plan on replacing them, rear pads and do a full bleed. You may get a panic call 
Didnt see you at the PCA party tonite. The dealer had a silver CGT on the show room floor. Ya need to take a ride over. Good food and drink and alot of nice looking cars. I was the only 964. Alot of nice 930's and one 993 and a couple older 911's. The rest were the newer cars
Didnt see you at the PCA party tonite. The dealer had a silver CGT on the show room floor. Ya need to take a ride over. Good food and drink and alot of nice looking cars. I was the only 964. Alot of nice 930's and one 993 and a couple older 911's. The rest were the newer cars
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09-18-2005, 01:09 PM
#9
Professor of Pending Projects
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Originally Posted by pete000
Just wondering why put back on the coil covers? what do they actually do? I left mine off. I haven't seen them on other cars I have done ss's on
I need to upload a few more photos and finish the write up. Later!
09-18-2005, 01:12 PM
#10
Professor of Pending Projects
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Originally Posted by jimq
Darn Jaime I went and ordered some yesterday. When it cools down in the next couple of months I plan on replacing them, rear pads and do a full bleed. You may get a panic call
Didnt see you at the PCA party tonite. The dealer had a silver CGT on the show room floor. Ya need to take a ride over. Good food and drink and alot of nice looking cars. I was the only 964. Alot of nice 930's and one 993 and a couple older 911's. The rest were the newer cars
Didnt see you at the PCA party tonite. The dealer had a silver CGT on the show room floor. Ya need to take a ride over. Good food and drink and alot of nice looking cars. I was the only 964. Alot of nice 930's and one 993 and a couple older 911's. The rest were the newer cars
I was changing the oil, doing the correct torque on the valve cover nuts, and getting ready for my trip today... argghh... after that we went out with the family... how the could I have forgotten! Must have been the same GT I saw the week of the 9th.
