996 TT rear spoiler problems - Help!
11-16-2005, 05:55 AM
#1
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996 TT rear spoiler problems - Help!
Hi Guys - Just hoping to get some information on the hydraulicly activated rear spoiler. My system seems to have leaked fractionally (I can see a very small amount on the fluid come from the main driver unit and it isn't quite winding up all the way, leading me to assume that there's a loss of pressure in the system) I have been told by the Porsche dealer to just replace the entire system, as it's easier that way. This seems very wasteful (and quite expensive!!) to me and so I wondered if anyone had experienced anything similar and managed to top up and or bleed the system (it doesn't seem very ovbvious at first glance) However I understand it's possible if a little tricky. 
Any advice would be much appreciated!
Any advice would be much appreciated!
11-16-2005, 09:46 AM
#2
Rennlist Lifetime Member
Not really. It is a sealed system and in most cases it is easier to replace the whole thing. Others that have tried I have seen fail. The best thing to do is search for a used unit and see what is out there. Or simply change the tail.
11-18-2005, 06:47 AM
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Hi Stephen - many thanks for the reply - I guess as you suggest the only thing to do is replace the whole system - although I was tempted to replace it with a fixed wing, these kind of items seem to damage the resale price of cars over here in the UK. It seems a bit of a waste however everyone is suggesting its the only way!
11-19-2005, 01:04 AM
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Charlie,
I had the EXACT same thing happen and had to change the entire unit. The Dealer first said that it was covered under my after-market warranty. After fixing it and picking up the car, a couple days go by and they called to let me know that it is not and that I owe $1200 for the fix! I'm having the manager look into it to see what he can do as they never called to get authorization to spend the dough. Lets see what happens.
Good luck with yours.
I had the EXACT same thing happen and had to change the entire unit. The Dealer first said that it was covered under my after-market warranty. After fixing it and picking up the car, a couple days go by and they called to let me know that it is not and that I owe $1200 for the fix! I'm having the manager look into it to see what he can do as they never called to get authorization to spend the dough. Lets see what happens.
Good luck with yours.
07-25-2010, 08:21 AM
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I just fixed my spoiler issue this weekend. I am reviving this thread, in case others of you are having similar problems. IF YOU ARE IN SAN ANTONIO OR SURROUNDING AREAS AND YOU WANT HELP DOING THIS _ CALL ME - I will help you - 210-240-5464
My spoiler was raising on both sides, but the drivers side was lagging, it was only coming up about half way. All of the posts I could find said that the culprit was that the hydraulic fluid has leaked from one side (the pump has 2 seperate resivoirs, one for each ram). However, there was no 'easy' way to add fluid, so the dealer quoted 1800 to fix the problem (replace the entire system).
I read everything I could find on the subject - here, planet porsche, 6 speed online. The genereal concensus was that if it was raising on both sides, it was just a low fluid level issue. I generally followed the instructions and fixed it within 2 hours. Here are some pointers.
First of all, this is not hard, I am an accountant, I dont change my own oil or have special tools. I do like to tinker a little, mostly electronics. If you have a 'lagging' side on your spoiler (but it raises on both, at least a little) - YOU CAN FIX THIS. Just open the deck lid and sit down with a chair. Look at the inside of the deck lid - you will see a shrowd that covers most everything, a cooling fan, the rams for the spoiler, and some lines (mine is a turbo, so I have a little more that the regular 996). When you look at this, you will see that this is not rocket science, it litterally takes 10 minutes to take the system out (or at least where you can access it). It is no big deal.
Most write ups talk about removing the entire system and putting it on a work bench. Then, hooking an external 12 v power source to the unit to raise and lower it. I DID NOT DO THIS - there is no need. I left the system in the car, and filled it there. i used the power from the car to lower and raise it, nothing more. I don't know why anyone would pull it our, you have enough room to do all that you need to do.
I will say that it is helpful to have a coule of small tables, a chair, and the 'magic tool'. The magic tool is a special tool that is made to rotate the cylindes that connect to the wing itself. I will post a picture, I ordered online for maybe 30 bucks. It did help. Also, yo need some hydraulic fluid, people have listed different things, but I recommend buying something that has a leak preventer in it. There are many options at the auto parts store, I went with a transmision fluid/lub with leak preventer.
Removal/access of the unit -
First - take off the wing itself. This is really easy - just raise the wing (using car power) to access the metal cylinders that hold it up. If your wind will nat raise enough, you may have to have a buddy pull it up on one side to get to the cylinders. I recomment using one or more towels between the car and the spoiler to be safe (no scratches, etc).
Once raised, you must use turn the cylinders about 3/4 a turn CLOCKWISE to release the wing. I used the magic tool, but I am almost possitive you could do this with your hand. The tool mkes it easier, since it is made to fit the curve of the cylinder and has a metal protrusion that fits into the hole to grip the cylinder. When you turn one side, that side pops off, the other is easier, and the wing is off. Looking at the struts after the wing is removed, they are easy to turn, so there is no worry about them not being oriented correctly later for re-attachment. Open the deck lid and move on, I would lower the struts at this time (using button in car). Now, cover the entire engine with 1 - 2 towels, to keep it clean, have a place to set stuff withour worry of it falling.
You must take down the large hard plastic piece that covers most of the inside of the deck lid. You DO NOT have to unbolt the fan from this unit - leave it in place. It is connected to the large plastic cover (shrowd) and can stay attached. Also, you do not have to unplu any of the wires (brake light, etc). If you want to - know yourself out, I did not.
On the right side (on my turbo) there was a air vent or tunnel that feeds air into the airfilter. This removes with 2 bolts at the (as it is open) top right side of the air tunnel, then it pops out of place on the back side. The same size bolt is used in about 8 places to hold the plastic cover/shrowd in place, take them all out. Once these are all out, the entire assembly is loose. It is fit in tightly, but you can wiggle it and slide it down to access the pump (and rams) easier. Push it down 6-8 inches (sliding it flat agains the deack lid, towards the engine). If it does not move, you have missed a bolt.
Once this is loose, change to the torque sockets and remove the rams. I suggest taking a picture so you know how the hydraulic line is oreinted coming into the ram (it connects at the bottom). Also, each is marked (L or R). Take note of where this mark is - so you put it back in the same position. It may only fit one way, but take note.
When the 3 torque bolts are removed, the ram pulls easily out of the decklid.
Just set it on the towels on the engine, or let it dangle for now. Remove the other ram, set it on the engine as well. In the top middle of the shrowd, above the fan, are 4 nuts (rounded cap looking nuts) that attach the cylinder/pump/oil ressiviour to the shrowd. Remove these 4 nuts, this will allow you to remove the pump. After the nuts are removed, pull the shrowd away from the decklid a little, and slide the pump out. You should be able to stand the pump up on its end on top of the towels covering the engine. It is a little tight, but there is plenty of room/ length on cables to allow for this. You want to put the end of the pump that has the hydraulic lines coming into it pointing up (with the pump itself in a verticle position resting on the towels). Take a picture of the end of the pump - noting the orientation of the lines, etc.
I did this by myself, so I did not have someone to hole the pump straight up, or the lines up, etc. It would be easier to have someone do this for you. What I did was use 2 zip ties for eac side of the pump. I used the middle, top 2 holes on the shrowd, and looped 1 zip tie through this hole and zipped it to make a big secure tie (big circle). I then attached a second zip tie to the pump and through the first ZIP tie. I repeated on the other side and tighted. This gives me 2 loops (connected like a chain) on each side the holds the pump straight up. I then put a second zip tie on each side (on the shrowd) to use later to hold up the lines.
To fill the unit, you are not going to remove the lines from the rams. The rams themselves do not hold much fluid (when down - not extened). Make sure that the rams are down - not extended!
You only have to remove the hydraulic lines from the pump itelf to add fluid. You do not need to remove the top of the pump, so see the 2 resivoirs in the unit - there is no need.
Before removing the bolts (banjo bolts) that connect the lines to the pump, use a marker and draw an arrow on the top of the bolt, pointed to the hydraulic line it feeds. The "banjo bolt" has a hole in it that allows the fluid to pass through it and into the line. Therefore, you must have this bolt oriented in the same way later when you tighten it back up. Drawing the arrow makes this fool proof - the arrow must later point at the line again when you are finished.
Remove one bolt (and hydraulic line) first. It will take a good grip on the pump (to make sure it wont turn) and a good pull on a socket wrench to break the bolt loose. If you cant hold it in place, put a cresent wrench on the lower part of the connection and pull the opposite direction - it come loose pretty easy this way. Remove the bolt (there is a washer on top, also a washer on the very bottom where it goes into the pump). hold the line itself up (or put it in the zip tie to hold up). You will see the bolt hole itself is where you add the fluid. First remove the line from the other pump, then top off both sides - pouring into the small hole that the banjo bolt goes into. Many people say that it helps to use a medicine saringe for this. The fluid I used had a little spout to it and poured right in.
After topping off, I left the unit there (hanging) for a while. Mostly because I got a call, but I also thought to let the fluid settle for a bit. I topped it off a little more when I returned. All that is left is to put the connectors back on. Remember, the right connector lays flat against the pump, with the connector on top, and the line running down the side of the pump. The other (left, the line does not run down the pump, but rather the line runs away from the pump. put the bolt back through the washers and the connector to affix back to the pump. The arrows must be lined up to point at the lines (the arrows you drew). Go ahead and tighten at this point.
Turn on the power to the car and raise/lower the rames several times. To raise, you press the button once (I think). But to lower, you must hold it in until it is all the way down. I only raised/lowered 4 - 5 times, then left the rams extended. I meassured each to see how long they were extended. Each was 2 marks over 3 inches - the same length! SWEET!.
Lower the rams again and reassemble the units into the car. This is really easy and fast - the hardest part is moving the shrowd around to get it in the right place - but even this is not bad.
As I said - this is not hard at all, and frankly, I am amazed that anyone pays for the fix. The fluid itslef in the unit is very little at all, maybe 6 ounces on each side. The leak preventer should help, but since it took 9 years for 3 ounces to leak out, I dont see this as a big problem in the future. Especially compared to a 2000 repair bill - jeez.
My spoiler was raising on both sides, but the drivers side was lagging, it was only coming up about half way. All of the posts I could find said that the culprit was that the hydraulic fluid has leaked from one side (the pump has 2 seperate resivoirs, one for each ram). However, there was no 'easy' way to add fluid, so the dealer quoted 1800 to fix the problem (replace the entire system).
I read everything I could find on the subject - here, planet porsche, 6 speed online. The genereal concensus was that if it was raising on both sides, it was just a low fluid level issue. I generally followed the instructions and fixed it within 2 hours. Here are some pointers.
First of all, this is not hard, I am an accountant, I dont change my own oil or have special tools. I do like to tinker a little, mostly electronics. If you have a 'lagging' side on your spoiler (but it raises on both, at least a little) - YOU CAN FIX THIS. Just open the deck lid and sit down with a chair. Look at the inside of the deck lid - you will see a shrowd that covers most everything, a cooling fan, the rams for the spoiler, and some lines (mine is a turbo, so I have a little more that the regular 996). When you look at this, you will see that this is not rocket science, it litterally takes 10 minutes to take the system out (or at least where you can access it). It is no big deal.
Most write ups talk about removing the entire system and putting it on a work bench. Then, hooking an external 12 v power source to the unit to raise and lower it. I DID NOT DO THIS - there is no need. I left the system in the car, and filled it there. i used the power from the car to lower and raise it, nothing more. I don't know why anyone would pull it our, you have enough room to do all that you need to do.
I will say that it is helpful to have a coule of small tables, a chair, and the 'magic tool'. The magic tool is a special tool that is made to rotate the cylindes that connect to the wing itself. I will post a picture, I ordered online for maybe 30 bucks. It did help. Also, yo need some hydraulic fluid, people have listed different things, but I recommend buying something that has a leak preventer in it. There are many options at the auto parts store, I went with a transmision fluid/lub with leak preventer.
Removal/access of the unit -
First - take off the wing itself. This is really easy - just raise the wing (using car power) to access the metal cylinders that hold it up. If your wind will nat raise enough, you may have to have a buddy pull it up on one side to get to the cylinders. I recomment using one or more towels between the car and the spoiler to be safe (no scratches, etc).
Once raised, you must use turn the cylinders about 3/4 a turn CLOCKWISE to release the wing. I used the magic tool, but I am almost possitive you could do this with your hand. The tool mkes it easier, since it is made to fit the curve of the cylinder and has a metal protrusion that fits into the hole to grip the cylinder. When you turn one side, that side pops off, the other is easier, and the wing is off. Looking at the struts after the wing is removed, they are easy to turn, so there is no worry about them not being oriented correctly later for re-attachment. Open the deck lid and move on, I would lower the struts at this time (using button in car). Now, cover the entire engine with 1 - 2 towels, to keep it clean, have a place to set stuff withour worry of it falling.
You must take down the large hard plastic piece that covers most of the inside of the deck lid. You DO NOT have to unbolt the fan from this unit - leave it in place. It is connected to the large plastic cover (shrowd) and can stay attached. Also, you do not have to unplu any of the wires (brake light, etc). If you want to - know yourself out, I did not.
On the right side (on my turbo) there was a air vent or tunnel that feeds air into the airfilter. This removes with 2 bolts at the (as it is open) top right side of the air tunnel, then it pops out of place on the back side. The same size bolt is used in about 8 places to hold the plastic cover/shrowd in place, take them all out. Once these are all out, the entire assembly is loose. It is fit in tightly, but you can wiggle it and slide it down to access the pump (and rams) easier. Push it down 6-8 inches (sliding it flat agains the deack lid, towards the engine). If it does not move, you have missed a bolt.
Once this is loose, change to the torque sockets and remove the rams. I suggest taking a picture so you know how the hydraulic line is oreinted coming into the ram (it connects at the bottom). Also, each is marked (L or R). Take note of where this mark is - so you put it back in the same position. It may only fit one way, but take note.
When the 3 torque bolts are removed, the ram pulls easily out of the decklid.
Just set it on the towels on the engine, or let it dangle for now. Remove the other ram, set it on the engine as well. In the top middle of the shrowd, above the fan, are 4 nuts (rounded cap looking nuts) that attach the cylinder/pump/oil ressiviour to the shrowd. Remove these 4 nuts, this will allow you to remove the pump. After the nuts are removed, pull the shrowd away from the decklid a little, and slide the pump out. You should be able to stand the pump up on its end on top of the towels covering the engine. It is a little tight, but there is plenty of room/ length on cables to allow for this. You want to put the end of the pump that has the hydraulic lines coming into it pointing up (with the pump itself in a verticle position resting on the towels). Take a picture of the end of the pump - noting the orientation of the lines, etc.
I did this by myself, so I did not have someone to hole the pump straight up, or the lines up, etc. It would be easier to have someone do this for you. What I did was use 2 zip ties for eac side of the pump. I used the middle, top 2 holes on the shrowd, and looped 1 zip tie through this hole and zipped it to make a big secure tie (big circle). I then attached a second zip tie to the pump and through the first ZIP tie. I repeated on the other side and tighted. This gives me 2 loops (connected like a chain) on each side the holds the pump straight up. I then put a second zip tie on each side (on the shrowd) to use later to hold up the lines.
To fill the unit, you are not going to remove the lines from the rams. The rams themselves do not hold much fluid (when down - not extened). Make sure that the rams are down - not extended!
You only have to remove the hydraulic lines from the pump itelf to add fluid. You do not need to remove the top of the pump, so see the 2 resivoirs in the unit - there is no need.
Before removing the bolts (banjo bolts) that connect the lines to the pump, use a marker and draw an arrow on the top of the bolt, pointed to the hydraulic line it feeds. The "banjo bolt" has a hole in it that allows the fluid to pass through it and into the line. Therefore, you must have this bolt oriented in the same way later when you tighten it back up. Drawing the arrow makes this fool proof - the arrow must later point at the line again when you are finished.
Remove one bolt (and hydraulic line) first. It will take a good grip on the pump (to make sure it wont turn) and a good pull on a socket wrench to break the bolt loose. If you cant hold it in place, put a cresent wrench on the lower part of the connection and pull the opposite direction - it come loose pretty easy this way. Remove the bolt (there is a washer on top, also a washer on the very bottom where it goes into the pump). hold the line itself up (or put it in the zip tie to hold up). You will see the bolt hole itself is where you add the fluid. First remove the line from the other pump, then top off both sides - pouring into the small hole that the banjo bolt goes into. Many people say that it helps to use a medicine saringe for this. The fluid I used had a little spout to it and poured right in.
After topping off, I left the unit there (hanging) for a while. Mostly because I got a call, but I also thought to let the fluid settle for a bit. I topped it off a little more when I returned. All that is left is to put the connectors back on. Remember, the right connector lays flat against the pump, with the connector on top, and the line running down the side of the pump. The other (left, the line does not run down the pump, but rather the line runs away from the pump. put the bolt back through the washers and the connector to affix back to the pump. The arrows must be lined up to point at the lines (the arrows you drew). Go ahead and tighten at this point.
Turn on the power to the car and raise/lower the rames several times. To raise, you press the button once (I think). But to lower, you must hold it in until it is all the way down. I only raised/lowered 4 - 5 times, then left the rams extended. I meassured each to see how long they were extended. Each was 2 marks over 3 inches - the same length! SWEET!.
Lower the rams again and reassemble the units into the car. This is really easy and fast - the hardest part is moving the shrowd around to get it in the right place - but even this is not bad.
As I said - this is not hard at all, and frankly, I am amazed that anyone pays for the fix. The fluid itslef in the unit is very little at all, maybe 6 ounces on each side. The leak preventer should help, but since it took 9 years for 3 ounces to leak out, I dont see this as a big problem in the future. Especially compared to a 2000 repair bill - jeez.
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07-26-2010, 08:11 PM
#10
Racer
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Southwestern Ontario
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i agree that changing or adding to the fluid is not that difficult - i even added some automatic transmission fluid stop leak to mine since I had nothing to lose! It did help a bit, by the way.
However, it seems that most of the spoiler problems i have seen (including my own) was due to a leaking hydraulic ram, not the pump. There is a writeup on 6 speed by a hydraulic expert who basically said, if the ram is leaking, it can't be repaired. So, then you have to either find a replacement used ram for that side (i don't think they sell the rams individually), or replace the entire assembly - pump and both rams - with either used or new.
However, it seems that most of the spoiler problems i have seen (including my own) was due to a leaking hydraulic ram, not the pump. There is a writeup on 6 speed by a hydraulic expert who basically said, if the ram is leaking, it can't be repaired. So, then you have to either find a replacement used ram for that side (i don't think they sell the rams individually), or replace the entire assembly - pump and both rams - with either used or new.
11-24-2010, 02:08 AM
#13
Three Wheelin'
Mine is doing the same thing. TIme for a winter project. The fluid is clearly leaking from both "jacks"...now I am getting uneven raising (also lagging on driver's side).
TIme to order the tool.
IF you have any other words of advise or an update on your fix....let me know via PM.
Thanks.
TIme to order the tool.
IF you have any other words of advise or an update on your fix....let me know via PM.
Thanks.
11-24-2010, 01:07 PM
#14
Rennlist Member
The best preventive maintenance you can do to keep your rear spoiler in good working condition is to lubricate the struts with WD40 every month or so. My spoiler would only go up on one side and I thought I would have to replace it. A friend suggested I try the WD40 and I haven't had a problem since.
